racer Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 Tire flexion builds heat. Less pressure increases flexion and increases heat. Higher pressure reduces flexion and reduces heat. In any case, typical street riding won't build enough heat anyway. That's why I recommend not running track tires on the street. It's basically pointless. Unless you are pushing hard enough to be dragging your knee, you won't build or maintain enough heat to activate a track compound. You just wear out your tires faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybird180 Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 Tire flexion builds heat. Less pressure increases flexion and increases heat. Higher pressure reduces flexion and reduces heat. In any case, typical street riding won't build enough heat anyway. That's why I recommend not running track tires on the street. It's basically pointless. Unless you are pushing hard enough to be dragging your knee, you won't build or maintain enough heat to activate a track compound. You just wear out your tires faster. Ah, you're right...I run the higher pressure to reduce tire wear...seems to be working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 Tire flexion builds heat. Less pressure increases flexion and increases heat. Higher pressure reduces flexion and reduces heat. In any case, typical street riding won't build enough heat anyway. That's why I recommend not running track tires on the street. It's basically pointless. Unless you are pushing hard enough to be dragging your knee, you won't build or maintain enough heat to activate a track compound. You just wear out your tires faster. Ah, you're right...I run the higher pressure to reduce tire wear...seems to be working. Back to one of the original points, better tire wear, but better traction? CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybird180 Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 Tire flexion builds heat. Less pressure increases flexion and increases heat. Higher pressure reduces flexion and reduces heat. In any case, typical street riding won't build enough heat anyway. That's why I recommend not running track tires on the street. It's basically pointless. Unless you are pushing hard enough to be dragging your knee, you won't build or maintain enough heat to activate a track compound. You just wear out your tires faster. Ah, you're right...I run the higher pressure to reduce tire wear...seems to be working. Back to one of the original points, better tire wear, but better traction? CF I think tire wear and traction are inversely proportional. In other words, you have to sacrifice one for the other. As stated earlier, I have traction adequate for the type and environment (street) of riding that I do. When I go to the track, I change the pressures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted October 24, 2008 Report Share Posted October 24, 2008 I think tire wear and traction are inversely proportional. In other words, you have to sacrifice one for the other. As stated earlier, I have traction adequate for the type and environment (street) of riding that I do. When I go to the track, I change the pressures. That's right, you did say that earlier. I'm a bit greedy, I like a lot of traction and some to spare CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybird180 Posted October 25, 2008 Report Share Posted October 25, 2008 I think tire wear and traction are inversely proportional. In other words, you have to sacrifice one for the other. As stated earlier, I have traction adequate for the type and environment (street) of riding that I do. When I go to the track, I change the pressures. That's right, you did say that earlier. I'm a bit greedy, I like a lot of traction and some to spare CF I also reduce pressure in cooler weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer Posted October 25, 2008 Report Share Posted October 25, 2008 I was checking out a 2002 Repsol CBR954 Fireblade that came into the shop today and was surprised to find that, sure enough, the sticker on the swingarm specified 42 psi rear and 36 psi front for "normal" loads and the same pressures for heavy loads. Huh. I'm going to pursue this as far as I can to find out why they specify the same pressures for light or heavy loads. I suppose if you are running street tires designed to run at lower temp's, say with a high percentage of silica in the compound, then the temp of the compound doesn't matter. However, I know the tire will deform and flex more under a heavier load, so, I have to wonder why. Why have the tire so hard under a light load? Will it really last longer? Won't the traction be affected? I suppose the smaller contact patch will manage a lighter load. But, I still think a lower pressure and larger contact patch will allow better traction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybird180 Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 I was checking out a 2002 Repsol CBR954 Fireblade that came into the shop today and was surprised to find that, sure enough, the sticker on the swingarm specified 42 psi rear and 36 psi front for "normal" loads and the same pressures for heavy loads. Huh. I'm going to pursue this as far as I can to find out why they specify the same pressures for light or heavy loads. I suppose if you are running street tires designed to run at lower temp's, say with a high percentage of silica in the compound, then the temp of the compound doesn't matter. However, I know the tire will deform and flex more under a heavier load, so, I have to wonder why. Why have the tire so hard under a light load? Will it really last longer? Won't the traction be affected? I suppose the smaller contact patch will manage a lighter load. But, I still think a lower pressure and larger contact patch will allow better traction. OEM spec for my 2002 F4i is 36/42. Doesn't specify Max/min or anything else. Let's remember that manufacturers try to make this as simple as possible for the squidly and the egghead types alike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 I was checking out a 2002 Repsol CBR954 Fireblade that came into the shop today and was surprised to find that, sure enough, the sticker on the swingarm specified 42 psi rear and 36 psi front for "normal" loads and the same pressures for heavy loads. Huh. I'm going to pursue this as far as I can to find out why they specify the same pressures for light or heavy loads. I suppose if you are running street tires designed to run at lower temp's, say with a high percentage of silica in the compound, then the temp of the compound doesn't matter. However, I know the tire will deform and flex more under a heavier load, so, I have to wonder why. Why have the tire so hard under a light load? Will it really last longer? Won't the traction be affected? I suppose the smaller contact patch will manage a lighter load. But, I still think a lower pressure and larger contact patch will allow better traction. OEM spec for my 2002 F4i is 36/42. Doesn't specify Max/min or anything else. Let's remember that manufacturers try to make this as simple as possible for the squidly and the egghead types alike. I think this is CYA. I don't see how a higher pressure (smaller contact patch) is going to get greater traction, and for a long time, even superbike slicks were 30 psi (roughly), with the new generation of stuff way lower (we run our N-tec slicks at 18). C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bpez Posted November 5, 2008 Report Share Posted November 5, 2008 Just put a set of Corsa III's on this past Monday. Morning track temps were in the 40's and didn't want to push my Pirelli diablo's. I was quite impressed. Sticky as hell. I'll see how long they last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer Posted November 5, 2008 Report Share Posted November 5, 2008 Just put a set of Corsa III's on this past Monday. Morning track temps were in the 40's and didn't want to push my Pirelli diablo's. I was quite impressed. Sticky as hell. I'll see how long they last. I've gotten good feedback on the Corsa III's from my customers. Dual compound. Similar to the Dunlop Qualifiers. The center tread compound should help them last longer on the street than if they were sticky all round. Here is some feedback on the qualifiers: http://www.kneedraggers.com/details/Dunlop...es--509023.html And the Corsa IIIs: http://www.kneedraggers.com/search/search....sa&search=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bpez Posted November 5, 2008 Report Share Posted November 5, 2008 Just put a set of Corsa III's on this past Monday. Morning track temps were in the 40's and didn't want to push my Pirelli diablo's. I was quite impressed. Sticky as hell. I'll see how long they last. I've gotten good feedback on the Corsa III's from my customers. Dual compound. Similar to the Dunlop Qualifiers. The center tread compound should help them last longer on the street than if they were sticky all round. Here is some feedback on the qualifiers: http://www.kneedraggers.com/details/Dunlop...es--509023.html And the Corsa IIIs: http://www.kneedraggers.com/search/search....sa&search=1 Do you work for kneedraggers or just posting reviews from their site? They're based in DE, right? You live on the east coast? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer Posted November 5, 2008 Report Share Posted November 5, 2008 Do you work for kneedraggers or just posting reviews from their site? They're based in DE, right? You live on the east coast? I work for a motorcycle dealership that sells tires from Tucker-Rocky and Parts Unlimited. I don't know anything about kneedraggers.com. I just Googled the tires for some feedback. I am located in PA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tgriff1222 Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 Hey Cobie, I am curious is you might know the answer to this question: How often does the school switch out the qualifiers? I rode one of your bikes for levels 1 and 2 and thought they were pretty good. I was curious as to the life of the tires with the school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 Hey Cobie, I am curious is you might know the answer to this question: How often does the school switch out the qualifiers? I rode one of your bikes for levels 1 and 2 and thought they were pretty good. I was curious as to the life of the tires with the school. Depends on a few factors, but the "norm" I think is 4 days. The tires are brand new, and Will keeps an eye on wear. Sometimes if you get a few really fast guys, they can wear it down quicker. Some tracks wear differently too. Example: Vegas (the infield course we use) is so abrasive, the tires last 2 days, and we have to change the direction each day. Don't know if they'd go 2 days on one side. We are pretty impressed with those Qualifiers. As an alround tire, they are pretty darn good. My personal opinion came up on them about 2 years ago when I had to go and chase some racers on our camera bike (filming them). We had sorted out the pressure (30 front, 28 rear), and they worked really well. We used to have them like 33/33, and that was too high. If doing a lot of track riding, Sportmax GP, or 208's would wear a bit longer, and have a different profile (more triangular). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F4imane Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Tire flexion builds heat. Less pressure increases flexion and increases heat. Higher pressure reduces flexion and reduces heat. In any case, typical street riding won't build enough heat anyway. That's why I recommend not running track tires on the street. It's basically pointless. Unless you are pushing hard enough to be dragging your knee, you won't build or maintain enough heat to activate a track compound. You just wear out your tires faster. racer, what do you consider to be track tires?? Just slicks? What about corsa III's? or 2ct's? Do you think those 2 are good to ride on the street ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybird180 Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Tire flexion builds heat. Less pressure increases flexion and increases heat. Higher pressure reduces flexion and reduces heat. In any case, typical street riding won't build enough heat anyway. That's why I recommend not running track tires on the street. It's basically pointless. Unless you are pushing hard enough to be dragging your knee, you won't build or maintain enough heat to activate a track compound. You just wear out your tires faster. racer, what do you consider to be track tires?? Just slicks? What about corsa III's? or 2ct's? Do you think those 2 are good to ride on the street ? Stuman, what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 racer, what do you consider to be track tires?? Just slicks? What about corsa III's? or 2ct's? Do you think those 2 are good to ride on the street ? Stuman, what do you think? the Getting enough heat in the tire is an issue on track tires, when using them on the street (like slicks or even the Dunlop DOT race tires, 208's, 209's 211's). For alround riding, the Qualifiers are pretty darn good, it's what we use on the school bikes. We use take off race tires on the coach bikes, they last longer for one reason. C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tgriff1222 Posted December 26, 2008 Report Share Posted December 26, 2008 Depends on a few factors, but the "norm" I think is 4 days. The tires are brand new, and Will keeps an eye on wear. Sometimes if you get a few really fast guys, they can wear it down quicker. Some tracks wear differently too. Example: Vegas (the infield course we use) is so abrasive, the tires last 2 days, and we have to change the direction each day. Don't know if they'd go 2 days on one side. We are pretty impressed with those Qualifiers. As an alround tire, they are pretty darn good. My personal opinion came up on them about 2 years ago when I had to go and chase some racers on our camera bike (filming them). We had sorted out the pressure (30 front, 28 rear), and they worked really well. We used to have them like 33/33, and that was too high. If doing a lot of track riding, Sportmax GP, or 208's would wear a bit longer, and have a different profile (more triangular). Thanks for the info, Cobie. I have qualifiers on my street bike and thought it would be fun to run it in a track day every now and then, but didn't want to put new tires on my street bike after every track day. Sounds like they should do alright for a spin around a track every now and then without killing the bike budget. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted December 28, 2008 Report Share Posted December 28, 2008 Depends on a few factors, but the "norm" I think is 4 days. The tires are brand new, and Will keeps an eye on wear. Sometimes if you get a few really fast guys, they can wear it down quicker. Some tracks wear differently too. Example: Vegas (the infield course we use) is so abrasive, the tires last 2 days, and we have to change the direction each day. Don't know if they'd go 2 days on one side. We are pretty impressed with those Qualifiers. As an alround tire, they are pretty darn good. My personal opinion came up on them about 2 years ago when I had to go and chase some racers on our camera bike (filming them). We had sorted out the pressure (30 front, 28 rear), and they worked really well. We used to have them like 33/33, and that was too high. If doing a lot of track riding, Sportmax GP, or 208's would wear a bit longer, and have a different profile (more triangular). Thanks for the info, Cobie. I have qualifiers on my street bike and thought it would be fun to run it in a track day every now and then, but didn't want to put new tires on my street bike after every track day. Sounds like they should do alright for a spin around a track every now and then without killing the bike budget. Thanks. For sure. We are pretty impressed with them in general and on the cold days, there are times I'd wished I'd had them on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spthomas Posted December 28, 2008 Report Share Posted December 28, 2008 Thanks for the info, Cobie. I have qualifiers on my street bike and thought it would be fun to run it in a track day every now and then, but didn't want to put new tires on my street bike after every track day. Sounds like they should do alright for a spin around a track every now and then without killing the bike budget. Thanks. For sure. We are pretty impressed with them in general and on the cold days, there are times I'd wished I'd had them on! I have Qualifiers on my bike which I've used for both street and track and I'm pretty happy with them. I've never had any sense of slipping with them on the track- they've gripped just fine for me, even while pushing as hard I can (but I'm not an expert...). Other riders I was with had various slip problems with other tires, although it could have been their bike, throttle control etc. I've had 4 track days and >7K miles on them, but I do have a new set ready to put on this spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted December 29, 2008 Report Share Posted December 29, 2008 I have Qualifiers on my bike which I've used for both street and track and I'm pretty happy with them. I've never had any sense of slipping with them on the track- they've gripped just fine for me, even while pushing as hard I can (but I'm not an expert...). Other riders I was with had various slip problems with other tires, although it could have been their bike, throttle control etc. I've had 4 track days and >7K miles on them, but I do have a new set ready to put on this spring. Another nice thing about the Dunlops is they are very predictable--you get lots of warning, and it's not sudden. This has been a trait they've had for a long time, one I appreciate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F4imane Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Cobie what do you mean when you say "Getting enough heat in the tire is an issue on track tires, when using them on the street (like slicks or even the Dunlop DOT race tires, 208's, 209's 211's)."???? Not sure I follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Cobie what do you mean when you say "Getting enough heat in the tire is an issue on track tires, when using them on the street (like slicks or even the Dunlop DOT race tires, 208's, 209's 211's)."???? Not sure I follow. How does a tire work? How do they stick, and what temps are really needed to get a tire to stick to it's potential? The tire moves and flexes, and this creates heat. A tire at full temp is from 160-200 F. You wouldn't be able to put your hands on the tire just after it came off the track at full temp. Going easily around town, on a cool day, you won't get heat in the tires. On the other end of the spectrum, we were at the track and it was over 100F, and it hardly took any time to warm the tires up, jumped on the bike and you could pretty much go. Slicks are made differently than street tires, can take a little more to get heat in them. The exact specifics of this, don't know, I'll ask Will. C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybird180 Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Cobie what do you mean when you say "Getting enough heat in the tire is an issue on track tires, when using them on the street (like slicks or even the Dunlop DOT race tires, 208's, 209's 211's)."???? Not sure I follow. How does a tire work? How do they stick, and what temps are really needed to get a tire to stick to it's potential? The tire moves and flexes, and this creates heat. A tire at full temp is from 160-200 F. You wouldn't be able to put your hands on the tire just after it came off the track at full temp. Going easily around town, on a cool day, you won't get heat in the tires. On the other end of the spectrum, we were at the track and it was over 100F, and it hardly took any time to warm the tires up, jumped on the bike and you could pretty much go. Slicks are made differently than street tires, can take a little more to get heat in them. The exact specifics of this, don't know, I'll ask Will. C To co-sign on what Cobie said: The carcass (innards that you can't see) of the tires are constructed differently. Tires are designed to work in a certain range. Too hot and they get greasy, too cool and the rubber won't grab the surface of the road. A street tire is designed to withstand more heat cycles than a race tire. It also works at a lower and broader temperature range. In exchange there isn't as much grip as a full-on racing tire. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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