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Entrance Speed Effect On Tires


chopperbill
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Assuming tires are warm, and lean angle is the same, what effect does entrance speed have on the tires sliding out. In other words, lets say I can go into a slow 2nd gear turn at full lean with the throttle off, can I go into a 4th gear turn at the same lean angle with the throttle off and not worry about the tires slidding out?

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Assuming tires are warm, and lean angle is the same, what effect does entrance speed have on the tires sliding out. In other words, lets say I can go into a slow 2nd gear turn at full lean with the throttle off, can I go into a 4th gear turn at the same lean angle with the throttle off and not worry about the tires slidding out?

 

You're comparing apples to oranges. The forces on the tire are much greater at higher speeds. Too many variables out there too. No 2 turns are exactly the same to say that the same lean angle can work on every turn at any speed. The faster turn will require you to hang off the bike more to keep your CG lower so there's another variable thrown into the mix. Just my opinion. Hopefully others will chime in.

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Assuming tires are warm, and lean angle is the same, what effect does entrance speed have on the tires sliding out. In other words, lets say I can go into a slow 2nd gear turn at full lean with the throttle off, can I go into a 4th gear turn at the same lean angle with the throttle off and not worry about the tires slidding out?

 

You're comparing apples to oranges. The forces on the tire are much greater at higher speeds. Too many variables out there too. No 2 turns are exactly the same to say that the same lean angle can work on every turn at any speed. The faster turn will require you to hang off the bike more to keep your CG lower so there's another variable thrown into the mix. Just my opinion. Hopefully others will chime in.

 

 

That's the kind of info i'm looking for,(more hanging off is reguired). To put it another way, What is needed to achieve the lean angles the pros get at high speeds.

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The only thing I really know about it is that I need to (obviously) start turning sooner on faster turns, and have to shift my butt while accelerating into the one I'm thinking of that would be comparable to what your asking. It's a 3rd gear 85-90 mph corner, and I would have to say the biggest thing for me is getting used to turning at that speed. I personally close any inside line off because I don't have time to check for riders behind me and don't want anyone zipping through my inside while I'm focusing on getting the bike to the apex.

What I just thought while typing is that if the corner is done under continued acceleration is there isn't that pressure on the front tire. That might explain why the turning point happens sooner also.

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The only thing I really know about it is that I need to (obviously) start turning sooner on faster turns, and have to shift my butt while accelerating into the one I'm thinking of that would be comparable to what your asking. It's a 3rd gear 85-90 mph corner, and I would have to say the biggest thing for me is getting used to turning at that speed. I personally close any inside line off because I don't have time to check for riders behind me and don't want anyone zipping through my inside while I'm focusing on getting the bike to the apex.

What I just thought while typing is that if the corner is done under continued acceleration is there isn't that pressure on the front tire. That might explain why the turning point happens sooner also.

 

Early turn ins: some turns it can work, but what is the common problem that it brings about (what rule is can suffer if the bike is turned in really early?)

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The only thing I really know about it is that I need to (obviously) start turning sooner on faster turns, and have to shift my butt while accelerating into the one I'm thinking of that would be comparable to what your asking. It's a 3rd gear 85-90 mph corner, and I would have to say the biggest thing for me is getting used to turning at that speed. I personally close any inside line off because I don't have time to check for riders behind me and don't want anyone zipping through my inside while I'm focusing on getting the bike to the apex.

What I just thought while typing is that if the corner is done under continued acceleration is there isn't that pressure on the front tire. That might explain why the turning point happens sooner also.

 

Early turn ins: some turns it can work, but what is the common problem that it brings about (what rule is can suffer if the bike is turned in really early?)

 

I would say the rule that can suffer is, to avoid running wide at the exit you may need to make steering chages near the end of the turn (add lean angle at a point where you want to be hard on the gas),

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Early turn ins: some turns it can work, but what is the common problem that it brings about (what rule is can suffer if the bike is turned in really early?)

I would say the rule that can suffer is, to avoid running wide at the exit you may need to make steering chages near the end of the turn (add lean angle at a point where you want to be hard on the gas),

 

How about TC #1?

 

C

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How about TC #1?

 

C

 

 

TC#1, of course its so obvious, a good line through the turn is a line where TC rule #1 can be used!

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How about TC #1?

 

C

 

 

TC#1, of course its so obvious, a good line through the turn is a line where TC rule #1 can be used!

 

Right. And if the rider runs wide...well, how good an idea is it to add more throttle when running wide?

 

C

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When I post, I'm not relaying it, but I'm thinking of specific corners. Turn 5 on Firebird East has the cones set out the same no matter who is hosting the trackday. I don't have multiple steering inputs, and am very comfortable taking the corner early, and at high speeds. I am in the Intermediate group, so they are better riders, and I can comparably carry good speed into, and get killer drive out of this corner. I've tried to turn at the one cone, but it just seems to make the turn so slow.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Assuming tires are warm, and lean angle is the same, what effect does entrance speed have on the tires sliding out. In other words, lets say I can go into a slow 2nd gear turn at full lean with the throttle off, can I go into a 4th gear turn at the same lean angle with the throttle off and not worry about the tires slidding out?

 

 

Doesnt keith always say to maintain throttle control? So why shut it off?

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Assuming tires are warm, and lean angle is the same, what effect does entrance speed have on the tires sliding out. In other words, lets say I can go into a slow 2nd gear turn at full lean with the throttle off, can I go into a 4th gear turn at the same lean angle with the throttle off and not worry about the tires slidding out?

 

 

Doesnt keith always say to maintain throttle control? So why shut it off?

 

In most turns, when one enters, isn't the throttle off?

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Assuming tires are warm, and lean angle is the same, what effect does entrance speed have on the tires sliding out. In other words, lets say I can go into a slow 2nd gear turn at full lean with the throttle off, can I go into a 4th gear turn at the same lean angle with the throttle off and not worry about the tires slidding out?

 

 

Doesnt keith always say to maintain throttle control? So why shut it off?

 

In most turns, when one enters, isn't the throttle off?

I'm not saying a word. (tapping fingers on chin)

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Assuming tires are warm, and lean angle is the same, what effect does entrance speed have on the tires sliding out. In other words, lets say I can go into a slow 2nd gear turn at full lean with the throttle off, can I go into a 4th gear turn at the same lean angle with the throttle off and not worry about the tires slidding out?

 

 

Doesnt keith always say to maintain throttle control? So why shut it off?

 

In most turns, when one enters, isn't the throttle off?

I'm not saying a word. (tapping fingers on chin)

 

JB--can't wait to get you at a school. :)

 

C

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