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Lean Phobia


nematode
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I've been riding a bike nearly daily for over a year now, it's not powerful or anything but it's still great fun.

 

I have a slight problem, I'm pretty easy on the leaning which I think stems from my bike once slipping out from under me on an icy day. I only mention this because I got thinking about when I went to a bike show recently and got on some mini-moto style bikes. As it seemed like a whole new ball game, I was leaning the thing on it's side, dragging the knee/shin guards along the floor. I think I felt so confident to really get it down because it was so low to the ground, not very quick, the surface was smooth and there was no traffic.

 

When I got back on my bike the next day, I noticed I was barely leaning whilst making turns, often having to drop massive amounts of speed to even negotiate a turn. I know it's possible, I just can't make myself lean!

 

As I have only taken a one day CBT course, I have never had chance to be in a proper environment learning about how a motorcycle behaves so I have adapted to this upright style and I fear it may impact upon my riding if I can't somehow teach myself to relax a little.

 

So folks, where should I start?

 

Thanks for your help,

 

Rufio

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Hi Rufio,

 

OK, what is CBT training--basic rider course?

 

Have you read any of Keith Code's books yet, do you have any technique to fall back on and use?

 

Cobie

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CBT- compulsory basic training, the first step to getting your motorcycle licence here in the UK!

 

firstly are you intending on getting your full licence, I think that will help alot, also forget about lean angle, as I learned on here that comes as a by-product of correct riding technique. as Cobie asks do you have the TOTW books, if not, get them! CSS uk website is doing a deal on them at the moment all 3 books + a free gift 25 pounds, bargan!

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CBT- compulsory basic training, the first step to getting your motorcycle licence here in the UK!

 

firstly are you intending on getting your full licence, I think that will help alot, also forget about lean angle, as I learned on here that comes as a by-product of correct riding technique. as Cobie asks do you have the TOTW books, if not, get them! CSS uk website is doing a deal on them at the moment all 3 books + a free gift 25 pounds, bargan!

 

Didn't know about that special, that is a deal. So, what's the gift?

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CBT- compulsory basic training, the first step to getting your motorcycle licence here in the UK!

 

firstly are you intending on getting your full licence, I think that will help alot, also forget about lean angle, as I learned on here that comes as a by-product of correct riding technique. as Cobie asks do you have the TOTW books, if not, get them! CSS uk website is doing a deal on them at the moment all 3 books + a free gift 25 pounds, bargan!

 

Didn't know about that special, that is a deal. So, what's the gift?

 

 

checked the site again the price is actually 29 pounds, still a great deal I think, the gift is a V2 sponge for cleaning your visor, I use one and its amazing for getting splattered bugs off!

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checked the site again the price is actually 29 pounds, still a great deal I think, the gift is a V2 sponge for cleaning your visor, I use one and its amazing for getting splattered bugs off!

 

Wonder if i could get the sponge... you guys have much better stuff than we do here it seems

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Leaning is something that comes with time and redundance. I focus on holding the bike up and am learning now, after over a year of track riding, to lean the bike farther over. I think I was only shaken one or two times from sliding the bike. It happens a couple times a day on a cold surface until the track warms up.

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Leaning is something that comes with time and redundance. I focus on holding the bike up and am learning now, after over a year of track riding, to lean the bike farther over. I think I was only shaken one or two times from sliding the bike. It happens a couple times a day on a cold surface until the track warms up.

 

My visual skills have a lot to do with it. The whole of level 2 works on this, and that level is one we often have to refine with our level 4 students. If those skills aren't in good order, more lean angle is scary!

C

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Maybe some new tires can help with your confidence? Just a thought. Might be a placebo fix but whatever works, works! Feel me?

 

 

Naa, not feeling you. Is this the sort of advice you would give to someone that has a problem cornering? Really? Buy new tires?

 

 

I think he might be better off thinking about his riding then just buying new tires.

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Ya it is I just did it. If your on this site it should be safe to assume that you read keiths books. He said he didnt know what else to do and was basically asking for a way to get some confidence to give it a go. So you chimmed in but where is your advice?

Having seen your question I reread Stuman's response. I beleive his advice was in his last sentence: "I think he might be better off thinking about his riding then just buying new tires."

 

Kevin

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think about your riding? I dont think that is gonna help nematode out much.

 

Why wouldn't it? Doesn't looking one's riding over, making decisions on what, how, when, or where to change something, isn't that how people make changes?

 

Endless track time is good, but if riders don't end up making some decisions, might they just keep riding around like before? And it's cheaper than track time!

 

Here's an example I saw: 3 riders on the same endurance team: A, B, C. A rode and raced, B did the same, C raced very little, was the slowest to start.

These guys raced once a year for 3 years. A and B raced, B a lot, (C only did the one race a year, but got some track time, and spent some time working on his skills--took CSS too).

 

C ended up being the fastest of the 3. He tried to get other 2 to do a little reading, a little training, but they already "knew it all."

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Sorry ,if I come off like a wise guy sometimes. But Cobie seems to have understood my point.

 

Sometimes when riders have issues they think that buying some part might be the solution. You hear riders say things like "my bike doesn't turn in quick enough, I think I need new triple clamps". Buying shiny new parts for your bike is great, but it typically won't solve a problem that stems from your riding.

 

The original poster describes a fear of leaning the bike over. All I'm saying is that buying a new set of tires probably won't fix the problem. Maybe if he can determine why he has this fear, where it originates from, and what he might be able to change to resolve the issue, he can make some real progress.

 

In other words, he might want to "think about his riding" and try to figure some if this stuff out.

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I am fairly sure that the main problem is just that I've got on a bike having passed a one day very basic test and developed a riding style which is not what it should be. Fortunately, it should be relatively easy for me to make changes when my book arrives as it's not too deeply programmed. Thanks again guys.

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I am fairly sure that the main problem is just that I've got on a bike having passed a one day very basic test and developed a riding style which is not what it should be. Fortunately, it should be relatively easy for me to make changes when my book arrives as it's not too deeply programmed. Thanks again guys.

Rufio;

I should have responded sooner here because I had forgotten how lean-phobic I was when I attended my first school (also my first time on any track) a few years ago. The School courses gave me a ton of information that demonstrated that I could lean it more than I was comfortable doing on my own. When you begin reading the Twist books you will learn that SR's - Survival Reactions are the biggest impediments to all of our efforts but Keith Code has developed a series of drills coupled with academic principles AND actual drill specific training bikes to help any rider become far more proficient that they could ever become on their own. I can honestly say that I could not get there from here...

 

Others here have said your fear will diminish with more experience and they are correct but you will get get over your fears more quickly once you attend the School.

 

Kevin

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I've been riding a bike nearly daily for over a year now, it's not powerful or anything but it's still great fun.

 

I have a slight problem, I'm pretty easy on the leaning which I think stems from my bike once slipping out from under me on an icy day. I only mention this because I got thinking about when I went to a bike show recently and got on some mini-moto style bikes. As it seemed like a whole new ball game, I was leaning the thing on it's side, dragging the knee/shin guards along the floor. I think I felt so confident to really get it down because it was so low to the ground, not very quick, the surface was smooth and there was no traffic.

 

When I got back on my bike the next day, I noticed I was barely leaning whilst making turns, often having to drop massive amounts of speed to even negotiate a turn. I know it's possible, I just can't make myself lean!

 

As I have only taken a one day CBT course, I have never had chance to be in a proper environment learning about how a motorcycle behaves so I have adapted to this upright style and I fear it may impact upon my riding if I can't somehow teach myself to relax a little.

 

So folks, where should I start?

 

Thanks for your help,

 

Rufio

 

 

Ok. I'm wiser now than when I was 19. Two wheeled vehicles will travel upright due to gyroscopic effect of the wheels. That means when your wheels start rolling - YOU WON"T FALL !! Try it on your bicycle. YOU WON"T FALL. To turn a mc is called counter steering. To turn Left push on your left handle bar. Your bike will lean to the left into the turn. At best try to lean at the same angle as your bike..don't counter lean. YOU WON"T FALL . Try turning in a large parking lot (empty preferably) where you won't run out of road. After you are comfortable leaning with your bike, try shifting your weight to the side that is leaning. You don't have to hang off the bike. Remember- you have to make the bike lean into corners because it has a tendency to be upright - due to gyroscopic effect.Always wear a helmet and gear up.

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I am fairly sure that the main problem is just that I've got on a bike having passed a one day very basic test and developed a riding style which is not what it should be. Fortunately, it should be relatively easy for me to make changes when my book arrives as it's not too deeply programmed. Thanks again guys.

 

Yeah, the books are great. T-1 and T-2 are totally different BTW. I often get a "hey is 2 a re-hashed 1?" Nope, totally different.

 

Let us know how it goes and if we can help with anything, a few book junkies on this forum :)

 

C

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  • 2 months later...

Hi guys i recently lowsided at one of my track session and ever since that i got a phobia in leanin low into corner ! I do still hang off but seem like can get the bike to go lower ! Recently i qns myself if i counter steer first then lean into corner or i just simply lean into corner !! Hope you guys can shed some lights in whether if wat is the proper techniques when you guys approach corners . Thanks

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  • 3 weeks later...
Hi guys i recently lowsided at one of my track session and ever since that i got a phobia in leanin low into corner ! I do still hang off but seem like can get the bike to go lower ! Recently i qns myself if i counter steer first then lean into corner or i just simply lean into corner !! Hope you guys can shed some lights in whether if wat is the proper techniques when you guys approach corners . Thanks

H3;

Do you know why you lowsided? Can you ask anyone saw it happen what they saw? Do you know if there were obvious circumstances that could have caused it? ...like rain, broken pavement, oil on the track, cold or worn tires?

If it wasn't the tires or the track then you need to understand what you did to cause the tires lose traction and why anyone who saw it could help you sort it out more quickly.

The Twist of the Wrist books (Vol I & II) will offer a ton of information on cornering. I would recommend that you read these regardless of your crash because these will help you become a much more proficient rider and who knows, they may offer you the reason why you lowsided in the first place.

 

k

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Hi guys i recently lowsided at one of my track session and ever since that i got a phobia in leanin low into corner ! I do still hang off but seem like can get the bike to go lower ! Recently i qns myself if i counter steer first then lean into corner or i just simply lean into corner !! Hope you guys can shed some lights in whether if wat is the proper techniques when you guys approach corners . Thanks

 

H3,

 

I think Kevin has a point, can we sort out exactly what you did that caused the crash? Did you loose the front? Did you loose the rear, did it come around on you under throttle? Was it a track day or just a street ride? How long had you been out? What was the temperature of the day? How old were the tires?

 

I won't be back up here for some days, we'll be at the track, but if you can answer this, we should get it figured what caused the crash.

 

Best,

Cobie

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