Cobie Fair Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 OK, here's something I was going over, and that is how well can you tell when your tires are up to tempurature and working well? How long do tires take to warm up in different conditions (warm day, cool day, sunny/no sun, etc.). In addition to the regulars chiming in on this, lets here what the lurkers have to say--have you ever thought of it, can you tell, do you just "trust" the tires--in other words, what do you do to tell you are ready to go? Best, CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lwarner Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 This is a great thread for me. I've only ridden in the rain (at the track) 1 time, other than that I've always had hot, sunny weather. I never really thought about what I did until you posted this but after thinking about it I can say that when it's been hot out I did one easy lap and on my 2nd lap went gradually faster. After that I don't have the judgement to feel the traction so I guess I've kind of been trusting the tires after my 3rd lap. Ideally I'd be able to feel the traction and know with certainty where I was in relation to the limit of the tire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozfireblade Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 I generally do the same take it easy on the turns for 1 or 2 laps whilst gradually increasing my lean angle and speed and if it a gutfull and dont prang the bike then they're warm!! It would be good if we had a table with different temps, tyre brands, wets-road or slicks and recommended times for warm up. Something like that. I'll try not to lurk too much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocadile Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 My steps are the same as everyone elses. I usually do one easy lap and then gradually increase pace. I have not really thought about what feedback I get to tell me when the tires are up to temp. With that said, I believe I am not able to push the tires that I am currently running(Dunlop 209 GPA). Tires are better than rider. This makes me wonder if I would be able to tell the if the tires are up to temp. Right now I just trust that after a couple of laps the tires are warm enough for me to push at my pace. The tires have worked great for me so far. This is something I will be paying attention to my next trackday. Great topic Cobie, so can we hear what your thoughts are on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonniB Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 tend to go out at a fair pace to warm up the tires quicker, just don't go beserk in the first couple of corners. I use two indicators for tire temp, one is feel from the front, when it starts to feel "solid/firm" then it's good and the second is pressure, which i measure after each session. I don't really concern myself with the rear, they always heat up faster than the front and slides are more controllable. Ronni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted October 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 OK, let's look at this one piece at a time, and the first one is what warms the tires? Generally speaking, the tires have to be flexed to warm up. Often one hears (in relation to warming the tires) to brake hard, or do burn outs. While a burn out might warm the center, not really going to warm the sides. Braking also not really going to warm the sides. Both sides need to be worked/flexed to warm. Too many times we have seen a rider go out, do 2 or 3 turns on one side, then faster into the next turn (on the other side) and crash. Rarely we have seen a rider go easy for a lap (or 2), then drop the hammer and crash. Starting easy, then gradually increasing the pace is a good rule of thumb. Remember to warm both sides of the tire. Who knows what tire tempuratures are supposed to be? CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybird180 Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Awhile back I posted about a conversation I had with a street buddy on a cold evening. I was on PP and he was on 2CT. He had much more faith in the tires than I did and blasted out immediately. I still have not found the indicators of a ready tire, but I have felt when it's not ready (while leaned over). Fortunately, I've always been able to save it because I never push early, and this will be a hindrance if I choose to race. The front feedback early in the session on my PPs feel sluggish and as they come in they feel solid as Ronnie said. I have no clue about the rear. I asked Keith about this when I was at the school because of the horror stories I've heard about this or the other brand of tire. I hope out of this thread to at least get an idea, even if I haven't experienced it consciously. A little off topic, but that's all I got at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sof Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Great thread Cobie. It's funny because I too noticed that it was so hot at the Streets a couple of weeks ago that I had really nice rear tire traction even in the first lap. By turn 8, the rear was nicely up to temp, but I did feel the front squirm under brakes for turn 9. This was during the end of the day. I had gradually started upping the pace of the first lap every session because of the the heat and increased sense of traction. I'm currently running some Bridgestone BT016 tires and I really like them. I was able to tell the tires were up to speed because I wasn't losing traction given the speeds I was going. What I always find very interesting in the MotoGP with the flag to flag rule is when the riders are racing on slicks and then it starts raining. It is always intriguing to watch the guys feeling their way through the every corner and how some riders are going so much faster than the others which can often be a totally different group of riders who were leading in the dry. It seems that the only way to find out where the edge is, is getting very close to it. And under those conditions, it is very tough to figure out where that limit is right away unless you have a "moment" or crash even. Rossi showed us this year at Le Mans where he wasn't too lucky, and Donnington where he did manage to recover. So it seems that experience helps a great deal in being able to know what sort of pace is suitable depending on the track and tire condition at that snapshot moment, but it doesn't mean that we can be certain our judgment is 100% correct. I have had experiences, that I would ordinarily be able to get away with while riding on nice warm tires, exaggerated to the point that they have caused me to crash on occasion with cold tires (like adding lean angle with throttle). So in doing the drills and improving my skills, it has helped to improve my riding even under much less than ideal circumstances. But in terms of feeling traction, I can certainly feel the difference between my tires gripping and sliding, but knowing where the boundary between the two is always a challenge. That's what makes cornering so intriguing for me. What would be great is if tires came with a temperature range chart... I have no idea what the optimal temperature range for my tires is sadly. However, I would love to know what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonniB Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 all tires have an optimum temp and pressure setting, ask an expirienced tire tech and he/she will be able to tell you. The bridgestone bt003rs I run, really like 34 psi hot and get about 50-55 degree celsius, which is good for road compound tires. But I found that it's the hot pressure setting that decides how the tire performs (and with that changes the tire temp) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted October 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Tire technology is changing fast, and what was good for some years, no longer is. We currently run 30 front 28 rear in the Dunlop Qualifier. But the race tires are way below that, the ones using the new technology. What I have heard is 120-180 degrees F operating temp for street tires, goes up to 200 for race tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spthomas Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 Rarely we have seen a rider go easy for a lap (or 2), then drop the hammer and crash. Starting easy, then gradually increasing the pace is a good rule of thumb. Remember to warm both sides of the tire. I do the easy first two lap thing, which sounds like what others are doing. My strategy on track days is to get ready at the first call for the group (beginner) so I can be first in line to get on the track. I like having clear track in front of me without traffic, so I go first and try to move along but not too excessive. On the initial straight part I go fast to get some distance but take it easy on the corners. I figure the straight line speed helps warm up the tires. After two complete laps I go as fast as I can. Sometimes I will get passed in the first two laps but it's better than crashing. I run Dunlop Qualifiers at 30/30 and haven't had any signs of slipping or feel problems that I can sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtrmln Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 In a non race situation I have a rule.. 3 laps. I figure I need my mind and concentration level up to temp and working first. It always seems the tires are ready to go before me. I wick it up a notch after each lap but it is never the same from session to session or day to day in regards to how fast of laps I'm doing. If my brain is warmed up and in " the mode" then it is easy to feel when the tires aren't ready. They slide and you correct for it. Sometimes by being stunned into no action. eheh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted October 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Rarely we have seen a rider go easy for a lap (or 2), then drop the hammer and crash. Starting easy, then gradually increasing the pace is a good rule of thumb. Remember to warm both sides of the tire. I do the easy first two lap thing, which sounds like what others are doing. My strategy on track days is to get ready at the first call for the group (beginner) so I can be first in line to get on the track. I like having clear track in front of me without traffic, so I go first and try to move along but not too excessive. On the initial straight part I go fast to get some distance but take it easy on the corners. I figure the straight line speed helps warm up the tires. After two complete laps I go as fast as I can. Sometimes I will get passed in the first two laps but it's better than crashing. I run Dunlop Qualifiers at 30/30 and haven't had any signs of slipping or feel problems that I can sense. We run 30 front, 28 rear in our Q's. One little point: speed in the straights isn't really going to build heat in the tires, you need to corner them, flex the tires on each side to get it to warm up. CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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