Rear Wheelspin

[andrewf125]

When you get a good drive out of a corner, is your rear tire suppose to be slightly spinning? In TOW I, Code mentions that the rear wheel is suppose to spin a little at the exit, does it still hold true?

[stuman]

Best acceleration with most tire will come with about 10% slippage I believe.

 

You can spin to much though and loose drive.

 

 

The best way I have heard this described is that you want to get the rear tire just churning. Just over the limit of traction so it is churning, but not spinning.

 

 

There it is clear as mud

[RonniB]

Best acceleration with most tire will come with about 10% slippage I believe.

 

You can spin to much though and loose drive.

 

 

The best way I have heard this described is that you want to get the rear tire just churning. Just over the limit of traction so it is churning, but not spinning.

 

 

There it is clear as mud

 

 

Basicly, you want just enough spin to draw a black line but without putting you sideways, well it sounds easy : )

[Cobie Fair]

quite a few students have left darker lines churning the tires. One thing that I've noticed lately is when riders add lean angle mid-turn, with throttle, they churn the tires before they are supposed to (and not as much when they are supposed to).

 

CF

[jasonbw]

Good question Andrew, this could be useful for other riders reading this, so let's also arm them with the valid reasons why a rider would want to churn the rear tire on corner exit, I'll list a few from the TOTW II book/bible:

 

1) Some rear wheel spin (from a smooth roll-on) will let the rear suspension become more compliant as the reduced traction relieves some of the load.

2) The motorcycle is pointed to turns exit sooner. (as the rear tire's reduced traction combined with the centrifugal forces allows the rear to move outward, pivoting the motorcycle around the front wheel)

3) Allows the motorcycle to be picked up earlier at exit (due to #2 above, more upright motorccyel gives more traction and suspension working better as it's more in line with the bumps)

4) Scrubs the tire exposing fresh rubber

5) Provides the rider an opportunity to better sense available traction

 

There are benefits also to the skilled rider who can use excessive rear wheel spin, but that's another topic

 

Any others to add?

 

P.s. Make sure you're completely relaxed on the bars if attempting to get this level of acceleration.

 

JasonBW

[andrewf125]

So if one were to try this, is there a strong tendency to highside if you get it wrong?

 

I would also like to add that it might be safer to try this on a higher speed corner as there is a greater margin of error with the throttle. It will be harder to over power the tires than if it was done in a slower corner.

[johnnyrod]

I'd say a lsower corner would be betetr as you don't have to try so hard to make the back wheel break away. In a fast bend you'll be heading towards 100% power to get a slide. Sounds more dangerous to me, and then there's falling off.

 

Any rear wheel slide that gets out of hand will mean you highside or lowside. If you shut off the gas then it'll highside, if you don't then it'll lowside, which is more preferable unless you like the taste of hospital food.

[faffi]

It is definitely easier to slide the rear at high speed than at low speed.

[Jaybird180]

I'd say a lsower corner would be betetr as you don't have to try so hard to make the back wheel break away. In a fast bend you'll be heading towards 100% power to get a slide. Sounds more dangerous to me, and then there's falling off.

 

Any rear wheel slide that gets out of hand will mean you highside or lowside. If you shut off the gas then it'll highside, if you don't then it'll lowside, which is more preferable unless you like the taste of hospital food.

A little off topic, but perhaps relevant to the fear to try:

Disclaimer: I've never had a highside and don't intend to ever have one

 

Speed of a (lowside) crash has no bearing on the severity of the crash. The caveat is that you have plenty of runoff and don't hit anything but flat ground, have good leathers, and don't tumble.

 

I'm glad this topic came up because it seems that it's getting closer to a question I had about a year ago when I asked the forum if a 600 can smoke the rear on exit, as I was interested in knowing the pros/cons and IF I'd ever experience it on my Honda.

[Alvecchio]

Very glad I found this post!

 

I'm a new rider learning the ropes with spirited riding after reading TotW2 and applying(safely) much of the content on the street. One thing that has still been haunting me is the sensation of wheel slip when I get leaned over too far(or what feels like "too far" to me). I get very nervous and tense up when I feel this happen and really want to get past it. I currently ride an 09 ER-6n(naked ninja 650). I have some nice roads near my house with some wide, sweeping turns I'd like to practice on before I go to the track this summer (commercial/industrial park after hours). I just want to get the feel for whats normal and get used to the spinning or churning you guys are mentioning. Any tips? I guess what I need to know first is how sensitive will the bike be to inputs once in that zone, like if I cough will I be going down? Will it be a relatively gradual, steady, controllable slide? I dont go crazy on my bike, especially while learning, I'm taking it easy, a little at a time. Just wanna shake these SRs =o)

 

Alex

[johnnyrod]

Some people say you can't spin or highside a 600 because there isn't enough power, and I say it's just not true. Add ridiculous lean angle and too much gas and guess what, grip runs out and the back slips. On a bigger bike it's probably more contorllable because you can force the rear to break away using the throttle more easily - on a smaller bike (600s aren't exactly small though) you have to use up more of the grip with coonering first as there is less power to take you over the edge of grippage. Doing it that way though, you're closer to a crash. Take it to the logical extremes - the only way to slide a 125 is really to grind the pegs and have it wode open. On a monster biek you can spin the back wheel in a straigh tline if you can keep the front down. On the 125, you're off, or having a huge job trying to save it, whereas on the big bike you just shut off and you're fine. Real life is somewhere in between, and I'm rubbish at finding the edge of grip with any sort of subtlety!

 

Alvecchio, just take it steady, as I've said by the time you spin up a small bike you're starting to get close to falling off. First thing is lean to relax on the bike, make your steering inputs consciously and then just let it follow its line, don't wrestle with it, that will bring you a lot closer. If you're smooth then even at silly lean angles you have more margin for error. Also check your suspension settings, too little preload won't feel too bad at modest lean angles but it'll wallow when you really push it, and it feels like the back trying to break away. This is quite common for people who are starting to corner faster and faster on bikes that are made more for comfort or as a compromise than things like a GSXR. Notch it up one and it'll probably feel better, but ideally set the sag properly.

 

 

 

Jaybrid has a good point! And if you want to see how it's done, I can demonstrate the best place to crash... in front of the photographer:

http://trackdaydigitalimages.com/110509nbwe/pages/page_104.html

 

 

 

[Cobie Fair]

Anyone got a link to a 125 highsiding?

[faffi]

There have been several highsides in the GP125 class over the years as well.