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Front Instability


darrenp4321
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I have attended level 1 through 3 of the CSS and found the courses excellent. However, what I have found at my first track day is that I am losing a lot of confidence in corners because I can sometimes feel the front tyre starting to slip. Then the SRs start to kick in with slowing down throttle roll on or rolling off the throttle. I expect that the slipping may be due to too much weight on the inside bar or poor throttle control (ie. not always progressively rolling on - I think this is a chain reaction from losing confidence). The problem is that I am not quite sure where to focus to solve the problem and gain some confidence back. Any suggestions on an approach to rebuilding confidence would be appreciated :-)

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I have attended level 1 through 3 of the CSS and found the courses excellent. However, what I have found at my first track day is that I am losing a lot of confidence in corners because I can sometimes feel the front tyre starting to slip. Then the SRs start to kick in with slowing down throttle roll on or rolling off the throttle. I expect that the slipping may be due to too much weight on the inside bar or poor throttle control (ie. not always progressively rolling on - I think this is a chain reaction from losing confidence). The problem is that I am not quite sure where to focus to solve the problem and gain some confidence back. Any suggestions on an approach to rebuilding confidence would be appreciated :-)

D;

Maybe if you went back to the beginning?

 

If you remember back to Level I, the first section was on throttle control and how that affects the bike's stability. You were instructed to move the weight off the front and back onto the rear correct...the 40/60 thing? Do you remember that the suspension has to be in the mid range both front and rear to work most efficiently and how do you get the components into that position?

 

Are you charging the corners going in too hot for your current confidence level? You could back it down a notch (or two) and go back thru your training to "re-learn" what you already know but may have lost touch with right now. Do you have good RP's for each turn? Are you two-stepping/three stepping? How's your wide view? How's your throttle control? Are you setting up early, before you arrive at your turn points? Are you loose on the bars? Are you quick turning the bike? Do you remember the pivot steering drill? Are you picking the bike up quickly? You were taught all of these things...you just need to put them all back together.

 

You have been through 15 specific drills in Level's I-III so find your notes and get reaquainted with the training or re-read the Twist Books (especially T2). It sounds like you need to do a little mental rebuilding of your approach and you may need to go slower to get faster if that makes any sense.

 

Others may disagree but that's why we're here...to learn.

 

Rain

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I have attended level 1 through 3 of the CSS and found the courses excellent. However, what I have found at my first track day is that I am losing a lot of confidence in corners because I can sometimes feel the front tyre starting to slip. Then the SRs start to kick in with slowing down throttle roll on or rolling off the throttle. I expect that the slipping may be due to too much weight on the inside bar or poor throttle control (ie. not always progressively rolling on - I think this is a chain reaction from losing confidence). The problem is that I am not quite sure where to focus to solve the problem and gain some confidence back. Any suggestions on an approach to rebuilding confidence would be appreciated :-)

D;

Maybe if you went back to the beginning?

 

If you remember back to Level I, the first section was on throttle control and how that affects the bike's stability. You were instructed to move the weight off the front and back onto the rear correct...the 40/60 thing? Do you remember that the suspension has to be in the mid range both front and rear to work most efficiently and how do you get the components into that position?

 

Are you charging the corners going in too hot for your current confidence level? You could back it down a notch (or two) and go back thru your training to "re-learn" what you already know but may have lost touch with right now. Do you have good RP's for each turn? Are you two-stepping/three stepping? How's your wide view? How's your throttle control? Are you setting up early, before you arrive at your turn points? Are you loose on the bars? Are you quick turning the bike? Do you remember the pivot steering drill? Are you picking the bike up quickly? You were taught all of these things...you just need to put them all back together.

 

You have been through 15 specific drills in Level's I-III so find your notes and get reaquainted with the training or re-read the Twist Books (especially T2). It sounds like you need to do a little mental rebuilding of your approach and you may need to go slower to get faster if that makes any sense.

 

Others may disagree but that's why we're here...to learn.

 

Rain

 

Hi Rain

 

I certainly remember all the drills and all the technical reasonings, and I think that it is probably putting me into information overload. I expect there are a couple of problems in play, and returning back to a throttle control focus and building back up again probably makes sense. Feeling the front slip a few times on different corners has kicked my confidence and put SRs in play, and then it is easy to start trying to complicate the fault finding.

 

The joys of learning...

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Hi Dazza,

To add to what Kevin has already stated. How relaxed are you on the bike and are you getting locked on good enough with your knee? Does this sensation of the front sliding happen in both left and right hand turns? Does it happen in both low and high speed turns? and think of this one, does it happen in your favourite corners? The thing is as you know excessive rider input can affect the bike in alot of different ways, and as no 2 turns are the same it is possible that you can cruise through some turns yet others will fire up that tight on the bars SR! I do it in low speed corners of all things, but being aware of it means I can tackle it!

When you go back to basics and work on your throttle control add this into the mix, hold on to the bike with your legs, and eliminate all tension from your upper body, conrol the bike with the bars but dont hold on to them! And one other thing, remember to breath!

 

Im not a coach or aything but just mentioning this as a problem from my own experience!

Bobby

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Nicely said guys! Spot on guidance! Thanks for posting up Dazza since this is an especially common problem when riders try to put it all together on their first track day.

 

Dazza, you're on the money, and you already have the answer... you want to feel that same confidence you got during the first drill of the first CSS day? Then simply repeat the scenario! Drop to the slowest group (simulate the lower speed we ride on the CSS days), remember not to use brakes and simply start with Throttle Control.

 

Remember how that felt? Reckon that'll get you back on the right path?

 

Congratulations on your first trackday by the way!

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Hi Dazza,

To add to what Kevin has already stated. How relaxed are you on the bike and are you getting locked on good enough with your knee? Does this sensation of the front sliding happen in both left and right hand turns? Does it happen in both low and high speed turns? and think of this one, does it happen in your favourite corners? The thing is as you know excessive rider input can affect the bike in alot of different ways, and as no 2 turns are the same it is possible that you can cruise through some turns yet others will fire up that tight on the bars SR! I do it in low speed corners of all things, but being aware of it means I can tackle it!

When you go back to basics and work on your throttle control add this into the mix, hold on to the bike with your legs, and eliminate all tension from your upper body, conrol the bike with the bars but dont hold on to them! And one other thing, remember to breath!

 

Im not a coach or aything but just mentioning this as a problem from my own experience!

Bobby

 

hey Bobby, thanks for your comments. I feel the instability on left or right turns so I am kind of thinking not locking on correctly or may be sliding too much off the seat. Anyway, I will go back to Throttle control and try to build up from there.

 

Cheers

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Nicely said guys! Spot on guidance! Thanks for posting up Dazza since this is an especially common problem when riders try to put it all together on their first track day.

 

Dazza, you're on the money, and you already have the answer... you want to feel that same confidence you got during the first drill of the first CSS day? Then simply repeat the scenario! Drop to the slowest group (simulate the lower speed we ride on the CSS days), remember not to use brakes and simply start with Throttle Control.

 

Remember how that felt? Reckon that'll get you back on the right path?

 

Congratulations on your first trackday by the way!

 

Thanks for your help Jason.

 

I will definitely be going back to the Throttle control drill for gaining some confidence and smoothness back, and less focus on the Level 3 drills for a bit. I am pretty sure the weight on the inside bar starts off from not quite locking on properly (maybe butt is too much off seat or something), and then moves from SR2 to SR1 once the front slipping feel starts up :-), so the viscous circle starts up. Anyway, back to the throttle control drill.

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Nicely said guys! Spot on guidance! Thanks for posting up Dazza since this is an especially common problem when riders try to put it all together on their first track day.

 

Dazza, you're on the money, and you already have the answer... you want to feel that same confidence you got during the first drill of the first CSS day? Then simply repeat the scenario! Drop to the slowest group (simulate the lower speed we ride on the CSS days), remember not to use brakes and simply start with Throttle Control.

 

Remember how that felt? Reckon that'll get you back on the right path?

 

Congratulations on your first trackday by the way!

 

Hi

 

I have one point that I want to get clear on regarding the throttle roll on is .... by rolling on the throttle helps to stop the front from becoming overloaded because of the weight transfer to the rear (40:60), but if too much throttle is applied then there can be a high side, however, is there still a chance that too much throttle can cause the front to slip out (I am thinking dry surface) as well ??

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Sure... good keyword you used there was "too".. as in "too much throttle"... you can "push/slide/slip" your front not getting the right weight distribution for changing conditions on the road or track. Question, would you need less of a weight transfer (roll-on) if going over a crest. What about at the bottom of a dip when the suspension is at it's lowest? Think about getting the weight distribution correct (approx 40 front, 60 rear for standard bikes or slightly more for some of the huge race rears were seeing more of these days)

 

Worth noting you can push the front from too high of a corner speed, but that's a different scenario usually. Picture this: during long slow corners, double apex or decreasing radius corners some riders may have rolled on too aggressively in the first part of the trun such that their corner speed is too high at the exit. Their front can push at that point especially if you have camber working against you there.

 

But back to the question, the idea is exactly as you described though, generally that gentle roll on after you've finished your steering input and are on your chosen line, stabilize it right then with the gas!

 

P.s. Remember the "push - then release" technique from your steering drill? Think that'll help with the inside bar weight? Even if you don't get your lock-on working for you right away (give it time and practise and if need be come back for a Level 4 as well focus on the area's that will give YOU the biggest gains) so long as you use the push then release technique in your steering you'll be getting the maximum potential traction in your front end compared with putting weight on the inside bar. Sound good? Make sure you write back if any of this doesn't sound familiar or you need a refreshed on the "Push then Release" (that goes for anyone reading this!)

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Sure... good keyword you used there was "too".. as in "too much throttle"... you can "push/slide/slip" your front not getting the right weight distribution for changing conditions on the road or track. Question, would you need less of a weight transfer (roll-on) if going over a crest. What about at the bottom of a dip when the suspension is at it's lowest? Think about getting the weight distribution correct (approx 40 front, 60 rear for standard bikes or slightly more for some of the huge race rears were seeing more of these days)

 

Worth noting you can push the front from too high of a corner speed, but that's a different scenario usually. Picture this: during long slow corners, double apex or decreasing radius corners some riders may have rolled on too aggressively in the first part of the trun such that their corner speed is too high at the exit. Their front can push at that point especially if you have camber working against you there.

 

But back to the question, the idea is exactly as you described though, generally that gentle roll on after you've finished your steering input and are on your chosen line, stabilize it right then with the gas!

 

P.s. Remember the "push - then release" technique from your steering drill? Think that'll help with the inside bar weight? Even if you don't get your lock-on working for you right away (give it time and practise and if need be come back for a Level 4 as well focus on the area's that will give YOU the biggest gains) so long as you use the push then release technique in your steering you'll be getting the maximum potential traction in your front end compared with putting weight on the inside bar. Sound good? Make sure you write back if any of this doesn't sound familiar or you need a refreshed on the "Push then Release" (that goes for anyone reading this!)

 

Hi Jason,

 

could you pls be so kind and refreshed me on the "Push then Release" drill? I did Level 1 and 2 during 2 day camp here in Europe last year. For steering we did counter steering drill on parking lot, but I dont remember "Push then Release" drill.

 

Thx in advance

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Press and Release isn't really a drill unto itself, it is something that we go over with some students that are experiencing a particular problem during the steering drill.

 

 

The concept is that sometimes during the steering drill a student or instructor will notice that the front end of the motorcycle kinds "digs in" at the bottom of their turns back and forth. This is typically because the rider will press on the bar to get the bike to lean over and then hold the bars to stop the bike from leaning. It's this holding the bars that causes the front end to dig in.

 

If you press on the handelbar to turn in and then release that pressure (just relax, not hold on) to stop the bike at the lean angle you want, the front end won't dig in.

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Sure... good keyword you used there was "too".. as in "too much throttle"... you can "push/slide/slip" your front not getting the right weight distribution for changing conditions on the road or track. Question, would you need less of a weight transfer (roll-on) if going over a crest. What about at the bottom of a dip when the suspension is at it's lowest? Think about getting the weight distribution correct (approx 40 front, 60 rear for standard bikes or slightly more for some of the huge race rears were seeing more of these days)

 

Worth noting you can push the front from too high of a corner speed, but that's a different scenario usually. Picture this: during long slow corners, double apex or decreasing radius corners some riders may have rolled on too aggressively in the first part of the trun such that their corner speed is too high at the exit. Their front can push at that point especially if you have camber working against you there.

 

But back to the question, the idea is exactly as you described though, generally that gentle roll on after you've finished your steering input and are on your chosen line, stabilize it right then with the gas!

 

P.s. Remember the "push - then release" technique from your steering drill? Think that'll help with the inside bar weight? Even if you don't get your lock-on working for you right away (give it time and practise and if need be come back for a Level 4 as well focus on the area's that will give YOU the biggest gains) so long as you use the push then release technique in your steering you'll be getting the maximum potential traction in your front end compared with putting weight on the inside bar. Sound good? Make sure you write back if any of this doesn't sound familiar or you need a refreshed on the "Push then Release" (that goes for anyone reading this!)

 

Thanks for the hint on 'the push - then release'. It could in fact be that i am still hanging onto the inside bar once I have pushed it to steer into the corner. Thinking about it more, may be the lock on is not to bad (at least for my level :-)) as I know that I can almost leg go of the bars sometimes (when in a corner) if I consciously focus on releasing the grip on the bars.

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Dazza, it sounds like you are on the right track in your first post when you mention throttle control and being stiff on the inside. Is there a speed that you know for certain you can ride with good technique? Where your SRs won't kick in and you can ride analytically?

I think that through perfecting your technique the speed will come gradually, without thought, intimidation or SRs. My .02.

P.S. If you don't have Stomp Grips or Tech Spec they could really help with your lock on/push and release/relax.

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Sure... good keyword you used there was "too".. as in "too much throttle"... you can "push/slide/slip" your front not getting the right weight distribution for changing conditions on the road or track. Question, would you need less of a weight transfer (roll-on) if going over a crest. What about at the bottom of a dip when the suspension is at it's lowest? Think about getting the weight distribution correct (approx 40 front, 60 rear for standard bikes or slightly more for some of the huge race rears were seeing more of these days)

 

Worth noting you can push the front from too high of a corner speed, but that's a different scenario usually. Picture this: during long slow corners, double apex or decreasing radius corners some riders may have rolled on too aggressively in the first part of the trun such that their corner speed is too high at the exit. Their front can push at that point especially if you have camber working against you there.

 

But back to the question, the idea is exactly as you described though, generally that gentle roll on after you've finished your steering input and are on your chosen line, stabilize it right then with the gas!

 

P.s. Remember the "push - then release" technique from your steering drill? Think that'll help with the inside bar weight? Even if you don't get your lock-on working for you right away (give it time and practise and if need be come back for a Level 4 as well focus on the area's that will give YOU the biggest gains) so long as you use the push then release technique in your steering you'll be getting the maximum potential traction in your front end compared with putting weight on the inside bar. Sound good? Make sure you write back if any of this doesn't sound familiar or you need a refreshed on the "Push then Release" (that goes for anyone reading this!)

 

Thanks for the hint on 'the push - then release'. It could in fact be that i am still hanging onto the inside bar once I have pushed it to steer into the corner. Thinking about it more, may be the lock on is not to bad (at least for my level :-)) as I know that I can almost leg go of the bars sometimes (when in a corner) if I consciously focus on releasing the grip on the bars.

 

Thought I would provide some feedback having had the opportunity to go for a couple of decent rides on the weekend......Spent a good few hours focussing on throttle control, push/release and two step. As such, I regained a lot of confidence back and could feel the front turning in easily on a tight line and gripping (sensation lost when tense). I was not focussed at all on speed but actually ended up being smoother and faster than expected.

 

However, I did find that once I started to move around on the bike (level 3) tension return throughout my body under braking for most corners. In part, probably some charging of turns (although I was not trying to go fast), but rather I think it is lock on problems under braking. Thinking about it I can feel my arms taking the braking force, then my body becomes tense and out of position, and the front instability gremlins return. Looking back through my notes I could see there was nothing that really addressed braking in the course. I have some questions.....Once your butt is moved across into position as per hip flick drill should both knees be gripping the tank for braking (I think I only have one cause other knee is hanging out) ? If doing successive corners in the same direction (eg two lefts), should the left knee come back into the tank for braking for the second turn? I think I might have me knee out for the corner too early.

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Sure... good keyword you used there was "too".. as in "too much throttle"... you can "push/slide/slip" your front not getting the right weight distribution for changing conditions on the road or track. Question, would you need less of a weight transfer (roll-on) if going over a crest. What about at the bottom of a dip when the suspension is at it's lowest? Think about getting the weight distribution correct (approx 40 front, 60 rear for standard bikes or slightly more for some of the huge race rears were seeing more of these days)

 

Worth noting you can push the front from too high of a corner speed, but that's a different scenario usually. Picture this: during long slow corners, double apex or decreasing radius corners some riders may have rolled on too aggressively in the first part of the trun such that their corner speed is too high at the exit. Their front can push at that point especially if you have camber working against you there.

 

But back to the question, the idea is exactly as you described though, generally that gentle roll on after you've finished your steering input and are on your chosen line, stabilize it right then with the gas!

 

P.s. Remember the "push - then release" technique from your steering drill? Think that'll help with the inside bar weight? Even if you don't get your lock-on working for you right away (give it time and practise and if need be come back for a Level 4 as well focus on the area's that will give YOU the biggest gains) so long as you use the push then release technique in your steering you'll be getting the maximum potential traction in your front end compared with putting weight on the inside bar. Sound good? Make sure you write back if any of this doesn't sound familiar or you need a refreshed on the "Push then Release" (that goes for anyone reading this!)

 

Thanks for the hint on 'the push - then release'. It could in fact be that i am still hanging onto the inside bar once I have pushed it to steer into the corner. Thinking about it more, may be the lock on is not to bad (at least for my level :-)) as I know that I can almost leg go of the bars sometimes (when in a corner) if I consciously focus on releasing the grip on the bars.

 

Thought I would provide some feedback having had the opportunity to go for a couple of decent rides on the weekend......Spent a good few hours focussing on throttle control, push/release and two step. As such, I regained a lot of confidence back and could feel the front turning in easily on a tight line and gripping (sensation lost when tense). I was not focussed at all on speed but actually ended up being smoother and faster than expected.

 

However, I did find that once I started to move around on the bike (level 3) tension return throughout my body under braking for most corners. In part, probably some charging of turns (although I was not trying to go fast), but rather I think it is lock on problems under braking. Thinking about it I can feel my arms taking the braking force, then my body becomes tense and out of position, and the front instability gremlins return. Looking back through my notes I could see there was nothing that really addressed braking in the course. I have some questions.....Once your butt is moved across into position as per hip flick drill should both knees be gripping the tank for braking (I think I only have one cause other knee is hanging out) ? If doing successive corners in the same direction (eg two lefts), should the left knee come back into the tank for braking for the second turn? I think I might have me knee out for the corner too early.

 

I had simliar problems with locking on then I bought Tech Spec grips for my tank took heaps of effort off me locking on as hard and no dramas with leaving my leg out, also another brand is called Stomp Grip which probably the one I would go for, for the track.

 

Not sure if anyone will agree with me but try keeping both knees into the tank until your trailing off the brake ie keep knees locked in until the heavy braking is done. This is what I do, set up brakes squeeze shift my butt across, light braking intially then heavy braking as your releasing/easing off let the knee out and fully release the brake (if your not trailing into the turn) tip in at the turning point, implementing the 2 or 3 step drill.

 

For successive corners, depending on how far apart they are, I bring my knee in (as the knee out will act as a sail causing wind drag and loss of speed) keeping my butt in the same spot so I wont upset the bike by shifting it then sticking the knee back out.

 

This is what I do and may not be the perfect advice smile.gif

 

Hope it helps Dazza

 

Dylan

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Sure... good keyword you used there was "too".. as in "too much throttle"... you can "push/slide/slip" your front not getting the right weight distribution for changing conditions on the road or track. Question, would you need less of a weight transfer (roll-on) if going over a crest. What about at the bottom of a dip when the suspension is at it's lowest? Think about getting the weight distribution correct (approx 40 front, 60 rear for standard bikes or slightly more for some of the huge race rears were seeing more of these days)

 

Worth noting you can push the front from too high of a corner speed, but that's a different scenario usually. Picture this: during long slow corners, double apex or decreasing radius corners some riders may have rolled on too aggressively in the first part of the trun such that their corner speed is too high at the exit. Their front can push at that point especially if you have camber working against you there.

 

But back to the question, the idea is exactly as you described though, generally that gentle roll on after you've finished your steering input and are on your chosen line, stabilize it right then with the gas!

 

P.s. Remember the "push - then release" technique from your steering drill? Think that'll help with the inside bar weight? Even if you don't get your lock-on working for you right away (give it time and practise and if need be come back for a Level 4 as well focus on the area's that will give YOU the biggest gains) so long as you use the push then release technique in your steering you'll be getting the maximum potential traction in your front end compared with putting weight on the inside bar. Sound good? Make sure you write back if any of this doesn't sound familiar or you need a refreshed on the "Push then Release" (that goes for anyone reading this!)

 

Thanks for the hint on 'the push - then release'. It could in fact be that i am still hanging onto the inside bar once I have pushed it to steer into the corner. Thinking about it more, may be the lock on is not to bad (at least for my level :-)) as I know that I can almost leg go of the bars sometimes (when in a corner) if I consciously focus on releasing the grip on the bars.

 

Thought I would provide some feedback having had the opportunity to go for a couple of decent rides on the weekend......Spent a good few hours focussing on throttle control, push/release and two step. As such, I regained a lot of confidence back and could feel the front turning in easily on a tight line and gripping (sensation lost when tense). I was not focussed at all on speed but actually ended up being smoother and faster than expected.

 

However, I did find that once I started to move around on the bike (level 3) tension return throughout my body under braking for most corners. In part, probably some charging of turns (although I was not trying to go fast), but rather I think it is lock on problems under braking. Thinking about it I can feel my arms taking the braking force, then my body becomes tense and out of position, and the front instability gremlins return. Looking back through my notes I could see there was nothing that really addressed braking in the course. I have some questions.....Once your butt is moved across into position as per hip flick drill should both knees be gripping the tank for braking (I think I only have one cause other knee is hanging out) ? If doing successive corners in the same direction (eg two lefts), should the left knee come back into the tank for braking for the second turn? I think I might have me knee out for the corner too early.

 

I had simliar problems with locking on then I bought Tech Spec grips for my tank took heaps of effort off me locking on as hard and no dramas with leaving my leg out, also another brand is called Stomp Grip which probably the one I would go for, for the track.

 

Not sure if anyone will agree with me but try keeping both knees into the tank until your trailing off the brake ie keep knees locked in until the heavy braking is done. This is what I do, set up brakes squeeze shift my butt across, light braking intially then heavy braking as your releasing/easing off let the knee out and fully release the brake (if your not trailing into the turn) tip in at the turning point, implementing the 2 or 3 step drill.

 

For successive corners, depending on how far apart they are, I bring my knee in (as the knee out will act as a sail causing wind drag and loss of speed) keeping my butt in the same spot so I wont upset the bike by shifting it then sticking the knee back out.

 

This is what I do and may not be the perfect advice smile.gif

 

Hope it helps Dazza

 

Dylan

 

Thanks for this Dylan, I will give this a try. I know one thing that I have found awkward in feeling about the hip flick is that once I have moved my butt across the seat, the hips and torso are facing away from where they need to face for the turn in. They then need to move to move to the inside for turn in which I guess must mean leaning and going with the bike (as opposed to more of a upper body preset position with body facing into turn and trying to use one knee for lock in). Not sure if you have any thoughts on that?

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Sure... good keyword you used there was "too".. as in "too much throttle"... you can "push/slide/slip" your front not getting the right weight distribution for changing conditions on the road or track. Question, would you need less of a weight transfer (roll-on) if going over a crest. What about at the bottom of a dip when the suspension is at it's lowest? Think about getting the weight distribution correct (approx 40 front, 60 rear for standard bikes or slightly more for some of the huge race rears were seeing more of these days)

 

Worth noting you can push the front from too high of a corner speed, but that's a different scenario usually. Picture this: during long slow corners, double apex or decreasing radius corners some riders may have rolled on too aggressively in the first part of the trun such that their corner speed is too high at the exit. Their front can push at that point especially if you have camber working against you there.

 

But back to the question, the idea is exactly as you described though, generally that gentle roll on after you've finished your steering input and are on your chosen line, stabilize it right then with the gas!

 

P.s. Remember the "push - then release" technique from your steering drill? Think that'll help with the inside bar weight? Even if you don't get your lock-on working for you right away (give it time and practise and if need be come back for a Level 4 as well focus on the area's that will give YOU the biggest gains) so long as you use the push then release technique in your steering you'll be getting the maximum potential traction in your front end compared with putting weight on the inside bar. Sound good? Make sure you write back if any of this doesn't sound familiar or you need a refreshed on the "Push then Release" (that goes for anyone reading this!)

 

Thanks for the hint on 'the push - then release'. It could in fact be that i am still hanging onto the inside bar once I have pushed it to steer into the corner. Thinking about it more, may be the lock on is not to bad (at least for my level :-)) as I know that I can almost leg go of the bars sometimes (when in a corner) if I consciously focus on releasing the grip on the bars.

 

Thought I would provide some feedback having had the opportunity to go for a couple of decent rides on the weekend......Spent a good few hours focussing on throttle control, push/release and two step. As such, I regained a lot of confidence back and could feel the front turning in easily on a tight line and gripping (sensation lost when tense). I was not focussed at all on speed but actually ended up being smoother and faster than expected.

 

However, I did find that once I started to move around on the bike (level 3) tension return throughout my body under braking for most corners. In part, probably some charging of turns (although I was not trying to go fast), but rather I think it is lock on problems under braking. Thinking about it I can feel my arms taking the braking force, then my body becomes tense and out of position, and the front instability gremlins return. Looking back through my notes I could see there was nothing that really addressed braking in the course. I have some questions.....Once your butt is moved across into position as per hip flick drill should both knees be gripping the tank for braking (I think I only have one cause other knee is hanging out) ? If doing successive corners in the same direction (eg two lefts), should the left knee come back into the tank for braking for the second turn? I think I might have me knee out for the corner too early.

 

I had simliar problems with locking on then I bought Tech Spec grips for my tank took heaps of effort off me locking on as hard and no dramas with leaving my leg out, also another brand is called Stomp Grip which probably the one I would go for, for the track.

 

Not sure if anyone will agree with me but try keeping both knees into the tank until your trailing off the brake ie keep knees locked in until the heavy braking is done. This is what I do, set up brakes squeeze shift my butt across, light braking intially then heavy braking as your releasing/easing off let the knee out and fully release the brake (if your not trailing into the turn) tip in at the turning point, implementing the 2 or 3 step drill.

 

For successive corners, depending on how far apart they are, I bring my knee in (as the knee out will act as a sail causing wind drag and loss of speed) keeping my butt in the same spot so I wont upset the bike by shifting it then sticking the knee back out.

 

This is what I do and may not be the perfect advice smile.gif

 

Hope it helps Dazza

 

Dylan

 

Thanks for this Dylan, I will give this a try. I know one thing that I have found awkward in feeling about the hip flick is that once I have moved my butt across the seat, the hips and torso are facing away from where they need to face for the turn in. They then need to move to move to the inside for turn in which I guess must mean leaning and going with the bike (as opposed to more of a upper body preset position with body facing into turn and trying to use one knee for lock in). Not sure if you have any thoughts on that?

 

If you are say in a right hander a have a left following quickly after (flip flop) the first turn, the right, set up as normal. Once the bike is leaned over to the right commence moving your butt to the left, then as your lean left your already in position and the bike doesnt loose to much stability from rapid movement and weight shift. Not sure but I think I couldve explained it better. Long day and all

 

Cheers

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  • 5 weeks later...

As for gripping tank under braking, I find it useful and synchronised when I grip a bit crossed up because my arse is a bit off centre, and when I push the handlebar to steer the bike is the exact moment I let go of the tank with my inside knee and stick it out... I find that that timing actually feels really good....

 

I hope noone tells me this is wrong cuz it feels right!!!

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As for gripping tank under braking, I find it useful and synchronised when I grip a bit crossed up because my arse is a bit off centre, and when I push the handlebar to steer the bike is the exact moment I let go of the tank with my inside knee and stick it out... I find that that timing actually feels really good....

 

I hope noone tells me this is wrong cuz it feels right!!!

 

Dazza. Interesting topic. A lot of input and opinions. All good. My question is How about suspension?.

When I bought my CBR1000 I had a liitle bit of problem due to the fact that I had to much sag, Compresion and rebound were set at factory specs. I had them tuned up by Washington Cycle in NJ and made my bike much fun and much better when it becomes to turning. It is like night and day. I am just dropping my opinion in case it has been overlooked. I am not saying it has. But sometimes the way the bike (suspension) reacts when cornering when it is not properly adjusted to one's style of riding, it has side effects sort of speak. I just hope you get your confidence and your technique back on track and get this problem sort out.

Regards.

The razor.

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How did I miss this conversation until just now? Some great information in here. I can give input on the braking, seeing as how the rest has been covered exceptionally well.

 

A few weeks ago at Inde I had one of the track fast guys, and one of the smoothest riders I know, follow me for some line tips. He told me he noticed that there were two corners where my butt was to the side and my legs were clamped to the tank. He said I looked uncomfortable and crossed up, but a little before I started my lean, my knee came out and I seemed relaxed and went into my turn.

 

He's observant. When I start my hard braking, you're going to see me look exactly the way Gio described. I'm fine doing it, but he said I looked uncomfortable. My legs and back are tense from holding the pressure of the braking. There is some pressure on the bars, but it's unavoidable at that speed with that stopping force. Once the hard stuff is done and I'm more adjusting for speed than braking, my leg comes out and I'm already locked in putting that pressure on the outside of the tank. It's just lean and go from there. Already locked in, pressure off the bars, butt off the seat and looking through the corner.

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