Tires

[Cobie Fair]

Really good tire information doesn't actually seem as prevalent as it should be. From being at tech at our schools and talking with students and riders this year, there is a what I consider a too high percentage that don't know how the tires work, warm up, cool down, etc.

 

There are a few pieces to this: construction, compound, pressure to name a few. I'd like to do a series of subjects, and plan on getting some real pro information on the above.

 

How does this sound to you guys, or am I beating a dead horse?

 

Best,

CF

[Kevin Kane]

How does this sound to you guys, or am I beating a dead horse?

Cobie;

Hell no your not beating a dead horse...tire development is changing so fast that a centralized place where we can compile data and compare notes would be a real boost to the knowledge base here.

 

Rainman

[dmj120]

HELL no!!! Beat away

[spthomas]

How does this sound to you guys, or am I beating a dead horse?

I think this would be great and I agree there's probably a lot better understanding to be had by many people including myself! I was just thinking about this, as there was a recent post where Keith was talking about people using tire warmers and then having the tires actually cool off on the first lap. I was thinking about getting some tire warmers and was looking at different models. One mentioned it had a cover to keep the breeze out and helped get heat into the rim- sounds reasonable, but what does the data say? On the other hand, on a track day, if you can do hard laps from the beginning instead of waiting 1, 2 or 3 laps, you get more "quality" track time instead of spending 20% of your day warming up. So yeah, I'm eager to get good info on all this.

[pete]

Great idea. I'm game to help!

[Cobie Fair]

Hey Guys,

 

I have some good news on this. Talked with an old friend last night, the East Coast race tire dealer for Dunlop, Steve Brubaker. Steve is very educated on tires, to say the least and he has said he might be able to come up and help on this.

 

I'm going to sort out a section on the forum for tires, then when that is done, get Steve up here formally.

 

This is going to be great, I'm actually excited about it!

 

CF

[ozfireblade]

I think this is a great idea as I have just started using tyre warmers. I was a bit confused because I didnt know what tyres should have been HOT only that I usually ahd them a 30 psi cold, then when I came in off a cold wet track day the tyres hadnt changed much in temp like a 2-3 psi gain. I thought that as it was kinda wet and cold I wasnt riding the qualifiers hard enough? I asked some of the racers they say to lower the pressures to generate more heat, the tyre tech said 30/30 is fine and.....funnily enough I'm all confused again .

 

I think a few easy ways to answer some pressure questions, may be to have a table (attached) with track/day temps and to have front and rear tyre pressures settings for cold and hot tyres, even have it for different tyre manufacturers

 

I have plenty more new to tyre technologies questions so any help, specially from a Dunlop rep, would be awesome,

 

Dylan

SUGGESTED TYRE PRESSURE SETTINGS.pdf

[Fajita Dave]

Really good tire information doesn't actually seem as prevalent as it should be. From being at tech at our schools and talking with students and riders this year, there is a what I consider a too high percentage that don't know how the tires work, warm up, cool down, etc.

 

There are a few pieces to this: construction, compound, pressure to name a few. I'd like to do a series of subjects, and plan on getting some real pro information on the above.

 

How does this sound to you guys, or am I beating a dead horse?

 

Best,

CF

 

I would LOVE to have more information on tires! I know the basics but thats about it. They have more grip when hot (but not to hot) and compounds/construction change how a tire warms up and performs in different situations but I don't know much more than that.

 

I'd like to know:

*What makes the rubber compounds different and what advantages or disadvantages those compounds have. For example the differences between track and street based tires.

*How the construction is different and how that effects the overall performance of the tire.

*What kind of surface temperatures would be considered optimal? Anyone can check their tires surface temp with a temp gun so that might help you adjust your tire pressure more accurately for the conditions. (If thats not a good idea I'd like to know why, besides that the tire will cool down a little when you pull in the pits)

*How does ambient temperature effect your tire pressure choice?

 

I'm sure there are plenty of other questions that I'm forgetting to mention!

[sslowmo]

I look forward to reading all about it.

[Cobie Fair]

Here is what I'm thinking: we'll get this sub-forum set up, and then we could simply do threads on the different subjects--pressure, compound, tire warmers, track tires, street tires, etc. Possibly pin the important posts/tables/specs at the top of the relevant threads.

 

Just an idea, we'll see how this evolves.

 

CF

[DUNLOP-RTS]

I think I can help you all out here with some solid facts and procedures.

 

There are many urban legends regarding tire warmers.

 

When the forum gets setup I will be happy to add my 2 cents worth and help you guys navigate this seemingly confusing issue, and turn it into a very simple one (which it really is simple).

 

Would that be alright with you guys if I jump in?

[khp]

I think I can help you all out here with some solid facts and procedures.

 

There are many urban legends regarding tire warmers.

 

When the forum gets setup I will be happy to add my 2 cents worth and help you guys navigate this seemingly confusing issue, and turn it into a very simple one (which it really is simple).

 

Would that be alright with you guys if I jump in?

Hi Steve,

 

Go ahead and jump in - just be careful of any rocks you might land on

 

 

 

Kai

[Cobie Fair]

Sorry for the delay guys, we are just sorting out some tech details with the new webmaster (got an appointment with them tomorrow afternoon).

 

If you guys want to just start, by all means go ahead. I know there is a lot of interest in this subjet, don't want to tease you guys too long, we can always move threads later if we need to.

 

So, with no further ado, let me introduce our latest moderator, Steve Brubaker, Dunlop Race Tire Services.

 

I encourage you guys to read Steve's short bio. I've known him for years, he's been in the motorcycle industry for an eon, worked here at the school did some coaching, raced, professional mechanic, and we both even worked on the orginal Twist Video.

 

He has been the eastern US Dunlop Race Tire rep for I don't know how many years, so to say we have an expert on tires is to put it mildly. Please make him welcome and ask away. We'll get "his" part of the forum up and running as soon as possible, but don't wait!

 

Welcome Steve!

 

Best,

Cobie

[Hector]

Hi Steve, and welcome! Nice to have someone with your knowledge around here...

Fist Question...

Im moslty a canyon rider, but next season 2011 ill start racing at club level, here in Monterrey Mexico. We dont have a very good track to say!, I ve seen that everybody around this track uses mostly slicks. We dont have tire rules, you can ride whatever...But some one told me that GP211 UK are mostly Ntec Slicks with groves on them, that seems to me pretty attractive to serve my two needs canyon and track, is this true? Temperatures year round are in the 90 to 105-110F, and a not so grippy track with lots of bumps in it

Cobie,

I dont recall what model of Dunlops I used while in school, to have a point of reference, could you tell me what they where? Im sticking with dunlops but dont know which will work best for me...

Kindest Regards,

Hector

[Cobie Fair]

Hi Steve, and welcome! Nice to have someone with your knowledge around here...

Fist Question...

Im moslty a canyon rider, but next season 2011 ill start racing at club level, here in Monterrey Mexico. We dont have a very good track to say!, I ve seen that everybody around this track uses mostly slicks. We dont have tire rules, you can ride whatever...But some one told me that GP211 UK are mostly Ntec Slicks with groves on them, that seems to me pretty attractive to serve my two needs canyon and track, is this true? Temperatures year round are in the 90 to 105-110F, and a not so grippy track with lots of bumps in it

Cobie,

I dont recall what model of Dunlops I used while in school, to have a point of reference, could you tell me what they where? Im sticking with dunlops but dont know which will work best for me...

Kindest Regards,

Hector

 

Hector,

We used the Qualifiers, Q-2.

 

CF

[Hector]

Hi Steve, and welcome! Nice to have someone with your knowledge around here...

Fist Question...

Im moslty a canyon rider, but next season 2011 ill start racing at club level, here in Monterrey Mexico. We dont have a very good track to say!, I ve seen that everybody around this track uses mostly slicks. We dont have tire rules, you can ride whatever...But some one told me that GP211 UK are mostly Ntec Slicks with groves on them, that seems to me pretty attractive to serve my two needs canyon and track, is this true? Temperatures year round are in the 90 to 105-110F, and a not so grippy track with lots of bumps in it

Cobie,

I dont recall what model of Dunlops I used while in school, to have a point of reference, could you tell me what they where? Im sticking with dunlops but dont know which will work best for me...

Kindest Regards,

Hector

 

Hector,

We used the Qualifiers, Q-2.

 

CF

 

And Coches where on Ntecs? I ask this because there lot ob doubts about DTC running with Dunlop slicks in other froums, and where better than CSS to know for sure if they work fine with dtc...Guess all coaches run on slicks and slick mode....?

 

 

 

[DUNLOP-RTS]

Hi Steve, and welcome! Nice to have someone with your knowledge around here...

Fist Question...

Im moslty a canyon rider, but next season 2011 ill start racing at club level, here in Monterrey Mexico. We dont have a very good track to say!, I ve seen that everybody around this track uses mostly slicks. We dont have tire rules, you can ride whatever...But some one told me that GP211 UK are mostly Ntec Slicks with groves on them, that seems to me pretty attractive to serve my two needs canyon and track, is this true? Temperatures year round are in the 90 to 105-110F, and a not so grippy track with lots of bumps in it

Cobie,

I dont recall what model of Dunlops I used while in school, to have a point of reference, could you tell me what they where? Im sticking with dunlops but dont know which will work best for me...

Kindest Regards,

Hector

 

Hector,

We used the Qualifiers, Q-2.

 

CF

 

And Coches where on Ntecs? I ask this because there lot ob doubts about DTC running with Dunlop slicks in other froums, and where better than CSS to know for sure if they work fine with dtc...Guess all coaches run on slicks and slick mode....?

 

 

 

 

Hector,

 

Your questions seems to be: is the N-Tec Slick the same as the D211GP UK N-Tec but with a tread pattern?

 

Yes and no. Let me be specific-

 

Both the N-Tec slick and the D211GP N-Tec are the same CONSTRUCTION. In that respect they are the same. Being N-Tec, they are low pressure and Zero Growth.

 

There is 1 rear N-Tec Slick, 195/65x17. This is exactly the same width and diameter as the D211GP N-Tec 200/55x17. Comparing those 2 rears they are basically the same, with the D211GP having a tread pattern. They both come in the same compounds.

 

The 190/55x17 rear is 1mm smaller in width and 7mm smaller in diameter (3.5 in ride height) than the 195/65x17 slick. They are very close but not exactly the same. They both come in the same compounds.

 

The 120/70x17 front is the same in width and diameter the 125/80x17 slick. the shape is slightly different but for most part they are the same. They both come in the same compounds.

 

performance of the slick is slightly better then the D211GP.

 

you can see the size and compound chart here: http://www.dunloprac...com/fitment.pdf

[Hector]

Steve,

Thanks for the info...

There´s a lot of lack of information regarding if the DTC in the BMW S1000RR works ok when changing tires...do you have any experience in running ntecs on the that bike, either slicks or the 211´s.?

Regards,

Hector

[DUNLOP-RTS]

Steve,

Thanks for the info...

There´s a lot of lack of information regarding if the DTC in the BMW S1000RR works ok when changing tires...do you have any experience in running ntecs on the that bike, either slicks or the 211´s.?

Regards,

Hector

 

Hector,

 

Yes we have use the N-Tec slicks and D211GP on the New BMW. With great success. We have many riders in the Eastern US that use the N-Tec and win races on a BMW.

 

Is DTC traction control? If you are asking if traction control works with N-Tec, the answer is YES. Certainly it does. It should work with any tire. Have you tried it?

[Cobie Fair]

Steve,

Thanks for the info...

There´s a lot of lack of information regarding if the DTC in the BMW S1000RR works ok when changing tires...do you have any experience in running ntecs on the that bike, either slicks or the 211´s.?

Regards,

Hector

 

Hector,

 

Yes we have use the N-Tec slicks and D211GP on the New BMW. With great success. We have many riders in the Eastern US that use the N-Tec and win races on a BMW.

 

Is DTC traction control? If you are asking if traction control works with N-Tec, the answer is YES. Certainly it does. It should work with any tire. Have you tried it?

 

 

DTC is traction control, and we have had all kinds of tires from, the Q-2's, to the slicks, to the GP-A's, works great on all.

 

CF

[Hector]

Steve,

Thanks for the info...

There´s a lot of lack of information regarding if the DTC in the BMW S1000RR works ok when changing tires...do you have any experience in running ntecs on the that bike, either slicks or the 211´s.?

Regards,

Hector

 

Hector,

 

Yes we have use the N-Tec slicks and D211GP on the New BMW. With great success. We have many riders in the Eastern US that use the N-Tec and win races on a BMW.

 

Is DTC traction control? If you are asking if traction control works with N-Tec, the answer is YES. Certainly it does. It should work with any tire. Have you tried it?

 

 

DTC is traction control, and we have had all kinds of tires from, the Q-2's, to the slicks, to the GP-A's, works great on all.

 

CF

 

 

 

Thanks...Steve and Cobie, with those two answers Im pretty confident Im safe riding in those tires with DTC...there is a lot of confusion on this issue in other s1000rr related forums of the DTC firing before or after a slide with not the stock tires...but of those people have nothing near the experience of you two with those tires and bikes. So where do I sign? Need a pair of Ntec´s...

 

 

[Cobie Fair]

 

Thanks...Steve and Cobie, with those two answers Im pretty confident Im safe riding in those tires with DTC...there is a lot of confusion on this issue in other s1000rr related forums of the DTC firing before or after a slide with not the stock tires...but of those people have nothing near the experience of you two with those tires and bikes. So where do I sign? Need a pair of Ntec´s...

 

Steve will have to help you on the slicks, and for all racer's needs (east of the Mississippi). I don't know what is the deal for Mexico...Steve?

[Hector]

 

Thanks...Steve and Cobie, with those two answers Im pretty confident Im safe riding in those tires with DTC...there is a lot of confusion on this issue in other s1000rr related forums of the DTC firing before or after a slide with not the stock tires...but of those people have nothing near the experience of you two with those tires and bikes. So where do I sign? Need a pair of Ntec´s...

 

Steve will have to help you on the slicks, and for all racer's needs (east of the Mississippi). I don't know what is the deal for Mexico...Steve?

 

 

I do business in Texas, and have address there, so ordering has never been a problem for me...I guess maybe Steve can send me a good pair to good old Texas...

 

 

[DUNLOP-RTS]

Steve,

Thanks for the info...

There´s a lot of lack of information regarding if the DTC in the BMW S1000RR works ok when changing tires...do you have any experience in running ntecs on the that bike, either slicks or the 211´s.?

Regards,

Hector

 

Hector,

 

Yes we have use the N-Tec slicks and D211GP on the New BMW. With great success. We have many riders in the Eastern US that use the N-Tec and win races on a BMW.

 

Is DTC traction control? If you are asking if traction control works with N-Tec, the answer is YES. Certainly it does. It should work with any tire. Have you tried it?

 

 

DTC is traction control, and we have had all kinds of tires from, the Q-2's, to the slicks, to the GP-A's, works great on all.

 

CF

 

 

 

Thanks...Steve and Cobie, with those two answers Im pretty confident Im safe riding in those tires with DTC...there is a lot of confusion on this issue in other s1000rr related forums of the DTC firing before or after a slide with not the stock tires...but of those people have nothing near the experience of you two with those tires and bikes. So where do I sign? Need a pair of Ntec´s...

 

 

 

Hector,

 

Just because someone writes about it does not make it true. You must evaluate whether the person had the know how to write it. I would not look to forums with any Joe rider trying to answer questions about something like Traction Control and tires. I would look to someone that is actually riding the same model competitively on the racetrack. Thier observations will be more valid.

 

Also look to yourself for the observations. You are the one riding the bike. Trust what you feel and observe. You should trust yourself and feel safe with your observations before you over-ride them with other peoples observations.

[Hector]

Well, I felt pretty confident with the Q2 and DTC while doing Level 1,2,3 at CSS...Ill try the Ntec, and as you mention Ill observe my self and see...With your comments I have a fundation to trust the Ntec or 211-DTC marriage in my bike...from there lets see how it goes...