Whoohoo, New Forum!

[Cobie Fair]

Mostly a test, see if this thing is working.

[khp]

Mostly a test, see if this thing is working.

Sure looks like it's working, Cobie

 

 

Kai

[dmj120]

Cool, so we gonna be looking a sub forums? Different threads about handling, stickiness, profiles and turn-in.... what's the best tire

 

Thinking some good stuff could come about

[Bullet]

I fully expect this one's going to get some viewing with some professional input and advice to debunk some myths and mysteries.

 

 

Bullet

[acebobby]

Looking forward to reading the posts on here.

Is it just a case of posting a tyre question and someone in the know will have a look at it?

 

Bobby

[Cobie Fair]

OK guys, we'll just start with this, and get some threads up here.

 

Steve Brubaker will chime in and moderate as needed (and as he is available!).

 

Go ahead, put any question up that you have!

 

Best,

CF

[twaym54]

First, much thanks to you all at CSS for the email directing me to this forum. Great info and posts for sure!! Thanks to you Steve for your insights about the "urban myths" on tires, warmers, heat cycles, ect ect. One question I have after reading the tire pressure thread, is it worth the extra cost, and trouble of switching rims to run the D211's for a mid paced "I" rider, for track day riding, If better riders are running lap times on a Q2 type of tire ( street/track ) that I have not been able to get to? I guess you could ask the same thing about any bike mod in this regard to suspension, ect. I have done the school two times with the BYOB and three two day camps, all at Barber, so I'm not opposed to investing in upgrades. Just don't want to waste my money. Also, what about the pro/con of running a 211 for country road, canyon type rides? Another myth about safety in regards to tire temp on the street? ( keeping in mind what Steve said about tread depth, wear ). Also forgot to mention, this is for a 2008 R6.

On a side note, I hope that all of the terrible weather news about the recent floods in Southern Cal, have spared any of you CSS and other folks. If not, your in my thoughts.

 

Thanks again for all the info.

 

Mike

[tom epp]

First, much thanks to you all at CSS for the email directing me to this forum. Great info and posts for sure!! Thanks to you Steve for your insights about the "urban myths" on tires, warmers, heat cycles, ect ect. One question I have after reading the tire pressure thread, is it worth the extra cost, and trouble of switching rims to run the D211's for a mid paced "I" rider, for track day riding, If better riders are running lap times on a Q2 type of tire ( street/track ) that I have not been able to get to? I guess you could ask the same thing about any bike mod in this regard to suspension, ect. I have done the school two times with the BYOB and three two day camps, all at Barber, so I'm not opposed to investing in upgrades. Just don't want to waste my money. Also, what about the pro/con of running a 211 for country road, canyon type rides? Another myth about safety in regards to tire temp on the street? ( keeping in mind what Steve said about tread depth, wear ). Also forgot to mention, this is for a 2008 R6.

On a side note, I hope that all of the terrible weather news about the recent floods in Southern Cal, have spared any of you CSS and other folks. If not, your in my thoughts.

 

Thanks again for all the info.

 

Mike

 

good question, i'm interested to see what steve has to say about this as well.

[DUNLOP-RTS]

First, much thanks to you all at CSS for the email directing me to this forum. Great info and posts for sure!! Thanks to you Steve for your insights about the "urban myths" on tires, warmers, heat cycles, ect ect. One question I have after reading the tire pressure thread, is it worth the extra cost, and trouble of switching rims to run the D211's for a mid paced "I" rider, for track day riding, If better riders are running lap times on a Q2 type of tire ( street/track ) that I have not been able to get to? I guess you could ask the same thing about any bike mod in this regard to suspension, ect. I have done the school two times with the BYOB and three two day camps, all at Barber, so I'm not opposed to investing in upgrades. Just don't want to waste my money. Also, what about the pro/con of running a 211 for country road, canyon type rides? Another myth about safety in regards to tire temp on the street? ( keeping in mind what Steve said about tread depth, wear ). Also forgot to mention, this is for a 2008 R6.

On a side note, I hope that all of the terrible weather news about the recent floods in Southern Cal, have spared any of you CSS and other folks. If not, your in my thoughts.

 

Thanks again for all the info.

 

Mike

 

 

I am a little confused. Correct me if I read your question wrong. But why would you change your rims? 2008 R6 (along with most every 600cc bike since the late 90's) has a 5.5x17 rear rim. There is no need to change to a different size rim. Please clarify.

 

Also please clarify which D211 you speak of. D211GPA or D211GP. see this post for clarification: http://forums.superb...indpost&p=20491

[tom epp]

First, much thanks to you all at CSS for the email directing me to this forum. Great info and posts for sure!! Thanks to you Steve for your insights about the "urban myths" on tires, warmers, heat cycles, ect ect. One question I have after reading the tire pressure thread, is it worth the extra cost, and trouble of switching rims to run the D211's for a mid paced "I" rider, for track day riding, If better riders are running lap times on a Q2 type of tire ( street/track ) that I have not been able to get to? I guess you could ask the same thing about any bike mod in this regard to suspension, ect. I have done the school two times with the BYOB and three two day camps, all at Barber, so I'm not opposed to investing in upgrades. Just don't want to waste my money. Also, what about the pro/con of running a 211 for country road, canyon type rides? Another myth about safety in regards to tire temp on the street? ( keeping in mind what Steve said about tread depth, wear ). Also forgot to mention, this is for a 2008 R6.

On a side note, I hope that all of the terrible weather news about the recent floods in Southern Cal, have spared any of you CSS and other folks. If not, your in my thoughts.

 

Thanks again for all the info.

 

Mike

 

 

I am a little confused. Correct me if I read your question wrong. But why would you change your rims? 2008 R6 (along with most every 600cc bike since the late 90's) has a 5.5x17 rear rim. There is no need to change to a different size rim. Please clarify.

 

Also please clarify which D211 you speak of. D211GPA or D211GP. see this post for clarification: http://forums.superb...indpost&p=20491

 

steve,

 

with regard to the rims, i read it as having a spare set of rims with the 211's mounted up for the track. i'm guessing that he's talking about having a set of q2's mounted up for street riding and then switching to wheels with the 211's mounted up for track riding?

[twaym54]

First, much thanks to you all at CSS for the email directing me to this forum. Great info and posts for sure!! Thanks to you Steve for your insights about the "urban myths" on tires, warmers, heat cycles, ect ect. One question I have after reading the tire pressure thread, is it worth the extra cost, and trouble of switching rims to run the D211's for a mid paced "I" rider, for track day riding, If better riders are running lap times on a Q2 type of tire ( street/track ) that I have not been able to get to? I guess you could ask the same thing about any bike mod in this regard to suspension, ect. I have done the school two times with the BYOB and three two day camps, all at Barber, so I'm not opposed to investing in upgrades. Just don't want to waste my money. Also, what about the pro/con of running a 211 for country road, canyon type rides? Another myth about safety in regards to tire temp on the street? ( keeping in mind what Steve said about tread depth, wear ). Also forgot to mention, this is for a 2008 R6.

On a side note, I hope that all of the terrible weather news about the recent floods in Southern Cal, have spared any of you CSS and other folks. If not, your in my thoughts.

 

Thanks again for all the info.

 

Mike

 

 

I am a little confused. Correct me if I read your question wrong. But why would you change your rims? 2008 R6 (along with most every 600cc bike since the late 90's) has a 5.5x17 rear rim. There is no need to change to a different size rim. Please clarify.

 

Also please clarify which D211 you speak of. D211GPA or D211GP. see this post for clarification: http://forums.superb...indpost&p=20491

 

steve,

 

with regard to the rims, i read it as having a spare set of rims with the 211's mounted up for the track. i'm guessing that he's talking about having a set of q2's mounted up for street riding and then switching to wheels with the 211's mounted up for track riding?

 

Thats exactly what I meant by changing rims, one set for street and one for track. Keeping in mind that using the D211GPA's ( which I was refering to ) for occasional country road/ canyon rides would not be good to do, based on others opinions that DOT's don't reach proper temps being used this way, and therefore are not as safe, as say using the Q2's, which have a broader usable temp range? Just bringing this up as maybe another tire myth. Sorry Steve, I missed the thread on choosing between track tires, and your response seems to pretty much answer my question about this. I guess this is sort of a chicken and egg kind of situation, the perverbial when do we know when were ready to step up to better tires, suspension, ect ect.

Thanks again.

Mike

[DUNLOP-RTS]

First, much thanks to you all at CSS for the email directing me to this forum. Great info and posts for sure!! Thanks to you Steve for your insights about the "urban myths" on tires, warmers, heat cycles, ect ect. One question I have after reading the tire pressure thread, is it worth the extra cost, and trouble of switching rims to run the D211's for a mid paced "I" rider, for track day riding, If better riders are running lap times on a Q2 type of tire ( street/track ) that I have not been able to get to? I guess you could ask the same thing about any bike mod in this regard to suspension, ect. I have done the school two times with the BYOB and three two day camps, all at Barber, so I'm not opposed to investing in upgrades. Just don't want to waste my money. Also, what about the pro/con of running a 211 for country road, canyon type rides? Another myth about safety in regards to tire temp on the street? ( keeping in mind what Steve said about tread depth, wear ). Also forgot to mention, this is for a 2008 R6.

On a side note, I hope that all of the terrible weather news about the recent floods in Southern Cal, have spared any of you CSS and other folks. If not, your in my thoughts.

 

Thanks again for all the info.

 

Mike

 

 

I am a little confused. Correct me if I read your question wrong. But why would you change your rims? 2008 R6 (along with most every 600cc bike since the late 90's) has a 5.5x17 rear rim. There is no need to change to a different size rim. Please clarify.

 

Also please clarify which D211 you speak of. D211GPA or D211GP. see this post for clarification: http://forums.superb...indpost&p=20491

 

steve,

 

with regard to the rims, i read it as having a spare set of rims with the 211's mounted up for the track. i'm guessing that he's talking about having a set of q2's mounted up for street riding and then switching to wheels with the 211's mounted up for track riding?

 

Thats exactly what I meant by changing rims, one set for street and one for track. Keeping in mind that using the D211GPA's ( which I was refering to ) for occasional country road/ canyon rides would not be good to do, based on others opinions that DOT's don't reach proper temps being used this way, and therefore are not as safe, as say using the Q2's, which have a broader usable temp range? Just bringing this up as maybe another tire myth. Sorry Steve, I missed the thread on choosing between track tires, and your response seems to pretty much answer my question about this. I guess this is sort of a chicken and egg kind of situation, the perverbial when do we know when were ready to step up to better tires, suspension, ect ect.

Thanks again.

Mike

 

The MYTH that race tires are unsafe on the street

 

 

We all hear about it. "I crashed because I did not heat up my race tires on the street". This basic story is told and we all think that the rider is a victim and "those bad race tires" put him on his head.

 

Simply put its a myth.

 

For legal reasons I am only going to speak about DOT approved racing tires here, not tires "For off road use only" (slicks).

 

---------------

 

A race DOT tire will stick as good or better than a street tire all through the heat range, from room temperature to fully heated.

 

Sounds simple and it is.

 

So why do we hear these bad reports of race tires being unsafe? Because unaware riders would like to BLAME something other than themselves for miscalculating and misjudging a situation. They make a mistake and instead of saying they screwed up, they blame the tires. Of course all the 1000's of miles they rode on the street with their used race takeoffs and never had a problem, they don't rave about the savings, traction and the fun they had. They only complain when its an easy scapegoat.

 

So how did we get here? what makes the rider "Think" it was his cold race tire? Its because his expectation of what the tire should do and what it did do are different.

 

Example:

 

Lets make a range 0-100.

 

0 being no grip at all (like baby oil on a blow up pool)

100 being full grip (Velcro).

 

50 street tire at room temp

60 street tire hot

52 race tire at room temp

80 race tire hot

 

If the rider only rides on the street he will be accustomed to his 50 grip level and ride within those boundaries.

 

Then the rider goes on the track and gets accustomed to receiving 80 grip on the track, with his tires hot. His sense of speed is now re calibrated to this new level of grip.

 

Then he goes on the street, if he rode with his street "calibration" he would not ride outside the box and all would be fine. but... If he rides with his race "calibration" he will ride at 60-65 with the expectation all is well, when in fact the tire can only provide 52. He blames the tire, when in fact he would have lost traction with a street tire even earlier.

 

At the end of the day its not the tire that is the problem, it's the rider thinking he was Nicky Hayden on the street and finding out he is not.

 

This story gets told over and over and after awhile the message goes from "don't ride past the grip level of your tires" to "race tires are bad". Big difference, and a good example of how urban myths can transform from one concept to a totally different one..

 

The Q2, which is a top of the line street tire, gets its technology directly from racing tires. There are many similarities in construction compounding and tread extrusion, yet riders are not claiming they fell because of a high performance tire.

 

Additionally DOT race tires are DOT (Department of Transportation) approved. They meet all the same safety requirements of all other DOT approved tires.

 

The best advice is to not ride like a fool on the street with ANY TIRE. That is the common denominator, don't be a squid.

 

Drawing from my personal experience, I use race takeoffs all the time on my street bike, I'm a big boy and get moving very well, and have no issues. I have over 100K testing on sport touring bikes using development compounds (race compounds), some city, some mountain and some highway, never a fall or problem. Back in the day I rode my race bike on the street (after putting back in street trim) with race tires and never a problem. I am not promoting that everyone use race tires on the street, there are economic reason for using a longer lasting street tire. I am saying there is nothing "Unsafe" about race tires (excluding specialty tires like Daytona).

 

I am sure I will get hate mail on this one: I am sure you can find the rider that swears up and down he was going slow and it was the race tires. But for every 1 of those we can find 50 street riders that fell on street tires and don't know why they fell, but don't blame the street tire. We can only learn from our mistakes when we know what mistake we make. Assigning BLAME is nonproductive.

[faffi]

My experience with the BT001 suggest you're absolutely correct, although when the weather got close to freezing grip was noticeably reduced - more, in my subjective opinion, than a typical sport touring tyre. But I could be wrong.

 

I would also expect track oriented tyres to perform less well on very wet roads compared to sport touring tyres?

[twaym54]

Thanks Steve for your answer to the "myth" of the DOT tires on the street. Its very much appreciated. Will look forward to your future posts.

[DUNLOP-RTS]

My experience with the BT001 suggest you're absolutely correct, although when the weather got close to freezing grip was noticeably reduced - more, in my subjective opinion, than a typical sport touring tyre. But I could be wrong.

 

I would also expect track oriented tyres to perform less well on very wet roads compared to sport touring tyres?

 

Wet conditions are different.

 

It would be unfair to compare dry race tires with sport touring tires in the wet. That is apples and oranges. How about compare full rain tires in full down pour? Wait, now I am getting silly, that's just not going to happen in the real world. lets keep to fundamentals.

 

You are correct, grip would be reduced the colder it gets. But lets keep with reality, the comparison is race tires and street tires in regular conditions. The idea was not to promote riding your race tires in sub freezing conditions.