shadow 1 Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Hello all, I've recently attended Level 3 @ SOW on Apr 22. Towards the end of my first drill (temp already in the 80s), I was finding myself spooked when trying at quick turns. Since I was still getting myself warmed up, I didn't brake hard going towards the turn points; rather, I very lightly braked (coasted even) towards the turn point and THEN initiated my quick turn. Immediately after the input, I heard/felt the front tire make a 'Krrrchh' sound, after which I quickly countersteered back out and finished the turn lazily. This ruined my confidence with quick turns for the rest of the day. My question now is, given all of the conditions I've described, what caused this phenomenon when I tried at quick steering? I thought that I could generally flop the bike over as hard/quickly as I could without any major issues? Was it because I was NOT loading up the front tire enough through braking to allow the front tire to sort of 'Bite' and go along with the quick steering input? Any insight would help me greatly towards Level 4 coming June 10 for me. Thanks! BTW, Yes it was the school's S1000RR, so bike setup is not the problem. Additionally, I sort of doubt the problem is due to tire temperature, because both Level 1 and 2 students would have used my bike already prior to my first ride on it for drill 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faffi Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 I honestly cannot see you managing to break traction with steering input. Does the bike have ABS? Could the combination of violent steering input together with braking have triggered the ABS to cycle? Other than that, I fully get that about confidence. I see people just throwing their bikes down to full lean at a walking pace or doing tight slalom courses at impressive speed and lean, but it scares the beejezus out of me. Naturally, I could learn to do the same, but I'm stumped as to how I need to go about to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktk_ace Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Im more biased towards a hardware bottlneck if its level4 ... Geometry, Tires and suspension settings might need some tuning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow 1 Posted May 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 I honestly cannot see you managing to break traction with steering input. Does the bike have ABS? Could the combination of violent steering input together with braking have triggered the ABS to cycle? Other than that, I fully get that about confidence. I see people just throwing their bikes down to full lean at a walking pace or doing tight slalom courses at impressive speed and lean, but it scares the beejezus out of me. Naturally, I could learn to do the same, but I'm stumped as to how I need to go about to learn. One of the points I tried to make was that I inititiated a Quick Turn under very LIGHT braking--probably at a relatively low speed as well. It was the First drill of the day, and I didn't want to push it just yet. I'm still stumped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow 1 Posted May 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 I have been told that it's very rare to push the front tire to cause it to make that 'Krrrchh' sound through a Quick Turn maneuver. A coach explained to me that if I had, then the sensation should've been a loss of front end feel and vague steering response, which i did NOT feel--I just felt a squirrely front tire making a Krrrschh sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mugget Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 That's really strange. Have you ever had a front end slide previously? If not, it would be possible that the front had momentarily lost traction and was sliding. But if you have experienced a front slide before I'm guessing you would know what it feels like... My preference would have been to go straight to my Coach and get that sorted, but anyway... if it happened to me my checklist would be something like this: Did it only happen once? Did it only happen at one corner, or at different places around the track? Was the track surface good where it happened? Was I only pushing on the inside handlebar (or both)? Was I moving my body while turning? Did I accidentally roll the throttle while making the steering input? Would the shape of the track affect my steering input (ie. negative camber, top of a hill etc.) Personally I like to play it safe and so I don't even attempt a quick steer unless I'm well off the brakes. I do sometimes trail the front brake a little into the corner, but then the steering input is definitely not quick. I wouldn't think it's because you didn't have enough weight on the front tyre. The only situation where I can see that being a problem is if you had been accelerating very hard and made the quick steer input very quickly before the front wheel had a chance to settle (or some other situation that would cause a similar result). When I was doing the Quick Steer drill I was coasting up to one corner for at least 80 metres or so, then quick steering with no problem at all, no braking beforehand. But the track was dead flat. From what you said I am guessing that it only happened once? Was it a left or right hand corner? And do you remember if you were only pushing on the inside handlebar, or were you also pulling on the outside handlebar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faffi Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 You must feel a tyre sliding enough to make noise, even if you've never slid the front before IMO. And I know you said light braking, which is why I mentioned ABS being triggered - it would then be hard to feel, but you would hear it cycling. BMW ABS is very advanced and also take into account lean and the speed of varous forces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotfoot Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 I have been told that it's very rare to push the front tire to cause it to make that 'Krrrchh' sound through a Quick Turn maneuver. A coach explained to me that if I had, then the sensation should've been a loss of front end feel and vague steering response, which i did NOT feel--I just felt a squirrely front tire making a Krrrschh sound. Hi shadow1, I sent a note to Cobie to take a look at this question, or maybe he'll refer it to Will. They are on the road headed to schools back east so I'm not sure when they will be able to get up on the forum. I haven't experienced what you are describing. For what it's worth, I agree with what your coach said, about how it would feel if the front end slid - to me it feels like the front tire is suddenly on glass - very smooth, with no feedback. I've never heard an ABS noise but that does seem like a possibility, I'll be interested to hear what Cobie/Will have to say about it. You mentioned you were at Streets of Willow - maybe you ran over a tumbleweed? :) In which turn did this occur? Was the sound a tire-squeal sound, or a grinding, crunching sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kane Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 They are on the road headed to schools back east so I'm not sure when they will be able to get up on the forum. Hey Hottie; Does this mean you're not on the east coast bus tour this year? Rain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotfoot Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 They are on the road headed to schools back east so I'm not sure when they will be able to get up on the forum. Hey Hottie; Does this mean you're not on the east coast bus tour this year? Rain The just fly me in for special occasions. Actually, my son was the ring bearer in my niece's wedding this weekend (yes, it was very cute), so I needed to be in town for that. I'll be at Barber, though - looking forward to that, I think Barber is a GREAT track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warregl Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Actually, my son was the ring bearer in my niece's wedding this weekend (yes, it was very cute), so I needed to be in town for that. I'll be at Barber, though - looking forward to that, I think Barber is a GREAT track. That does sound like a good reason to stay home but I was hoping to meet you at VIR this year! And I'm also interested in Cobie's and/or Will's input on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow 1 Posted June 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Hey everyone, Sorry I've been super busy the past month, so I've not had a chance to read your replies. I have never had a front end slide before. This incident actually happened to me at least TWICE on that same drill, and it was Not at a specific part of teh track. In fact, I believe it happened both on a left hand and right hand corner at SOW. And the noise it made, definitely sounded like a rubber screech. My follow up question is: Do I need to have the Front end loaded under braking, then Release the brake as I initiate the Quick Turn? Or could I punch the bars in while coasting and expect the bike to bite accordingly? I know Mugget replied agreeing with the latter, thank you. I just would like this reaffirmed? I have my Level 4 this Sunday, June 10 at Streets of Willow, and I think I've mustered up enough confidence to try at this QT drill again. I'll try to let the coaches know of my problem, and hopefully I can come back here to post some new insight afterwards. Thanks a lot guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khp Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 My follow up question is: Do I need to have the Front end loaded under braking, then Release the brake as I initiate the Quick Turn? Or could I punch the bars in while coasting and expect the bike to bite accordingly? QT while coasting or even with the clutch pulled will work very fine, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotfoot Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 When you say "punch" on the bars, that makes me wonder - are you making a jabbing motion at the bars? Quick turn requires a firm push on the bar, but not a punch - that can result in a wobble in the steering. At the school, check with your coach on exactly how you are executing your quick turn, that might uncover the source of the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifubs Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 Could it be possible that with the sudden sharp steering input you at also twisting the throttle a bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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