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And On The Seventh Day He Created The S 1000Rr


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Sold my track-only R1 in anticipation of the S1000RR! And what an awesome bike that is....sorry, gotta go ride! C'ya at the track.

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Sold my track-only R1 in anticipation of the S1000RR! And what an awesome bike that is....sorry, gotta go ride! C'ya at the track.

 

Welcome Gr8Dane. There are quite a few of us around here that fell the same way about the S1000RR.

 

 

On a side note, the S1000RR just took top prize in RoadRacing World's Liter bike shootout, not too shabby for what is still a relatively new entry in the superbike market

 

I read that article as well and have to admit I waas pulling for the Beamer (is that wrong of me ;) ) . That said, was anyone else dissappointed in the lack of cooperation shown by Ducati? They wouldn't allow the Panigale to be tested on the spec tires being used for all the bikes. I realize it's their bike so they can make the rules under which they allow it's use but it does seem to reflect some of the corporate mentality that may just put Rossi on another bike next year.

 

But then again maybe that is part of their charm :P .

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... was anyone else dissappointed in the lack of cooperation shown by Ducati? They wouldn't allow the Panigale to be tested on the spec tires being used for all the bikes. I realize it's their bike so they can make the rules under which they allow it's use but it does seem to reflect some of the corporate mentality that may just put Rossi on another bike next year.

I wonder if Ducati is suffering from an "OMG, what did we do?" dilemma. They appear to have bet the house on a design concept that they just abandoned at the MotoGP level; then they held it out of SBK this season so they could test it in Superstock. Checka and the 1198 are struggling this season handicapped by a couple of DNF's so the decision to hold it out is curious under the circumstances. Having watched Dylan Code wring one out at NJMP back in May however, I can say that I finally heard a bike whose sound exceeds that of the RC51 which up until that point had been my most favorite sounding bike on the track.

 

Rainman;

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I wonder if Ducati is suffering from an "OMG, what did we do?" dilemma. They appear to have bet the house on a design concept that they just abandoned at the MotoGP level; then they held it out of SBK this season so they could test it in Superstock. Checka and the 1198 are struggling this season handicapped by a couple of DNF's so the decision to hold it out is curious under the circumstances. Having watched Dylan Code wring one out at NJMP back in May however, I can say that I finally heard a bike whose sound exceeds that of the RC51 which up until that point had been my most favorite sounding bike on the track.

 

Rainman;

 

Good point Rainman. I am interested to see how it all plays out. Personally I hope the Panagle is a success, at least commercially - I think that is better for the sport. And come to think of it, if it would help Checka beat Biaggi, I'm ok with that too :D .

 

And now I have got to hear one being ridden in anger. I think there is a Duc shop in couple of towns over...

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Personally I hope the Panagle is a success, at least commercially - I think that is better for the sport.

Carey;

 

I will be shocked if it isn't deemed a success; especially since Ducati seems to be selling a lot of bikes at least here in the US; their sound alone will be a marketing gimmick. The one big change I have read (somewhere) is that it's torque curve is more curved than the 1198's (or its predecessors) and the power delivery is more like a I4 and less linear than a L2 but I can't remember where I read that.

 

Kevin

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You might want to ask the instructors at CSS what they think of the Panigale. I saw some of them take a 1199, S1000RR and a 98R around the track and they were pretty much dead even through the track. It comes down to type of track, type of rider, and most important - ability and familiarity of the bike to the rider. I doubt 99.9% of the riders can extract the difference in performance of these bikes.

 

In terms of power delivery - everyone is saying the 1199 is like an I4 rather than a traditional 2. I'm not so sure about that. The 1199 delivers power pretty much throughout the entire power band, but has another kick at the 8k+ rpm level where some of the older Duc's did not. It pulls faster/stronger than every single other Duc out there across almost the entire band outside of an ever so small area vs the 1098R. So if you're using the 98R as an example to compare against, yeah, it loses out a few N-m in a couple thousand rpm. So kind of irrelevant. . .

 

I would disagree on the 7th day assertion though. I think the most stunning bike visually is the Tamburini designed MV Agusta F4. . might not be the highest performing one, but geez is that a gorgeous bike.

 

 

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In terms of power delivery - everyone is saying the 1199 is like an I4 rather than a traditional 2. I'm not so sure about that. The 1199 delivers power pretty much throughout the entire power band, but has another kick at the 8k+ rpm level where some of the older Duc's did not. It pulls faster/stronger than every single other Duc out there across almost the entire band outside of an ever so small area vs the 1098R. So if you're using the 98R as an example to compare against, yeah, it loses out a few N-m in a couple thousand rpm. So kind of irrelevant. . .

I found the article and although this section doesn't talk about the torque curve per se, it does describe it's performance.

Kevin Ash in the Telegraph writes: "The engine churns slowly before exploding into life, the ride-by-wire throttle response electric and compelling. The sound is unmistakably Ducati twin, but with a more urgent edge and a willingness to rev not seen – or heard – before. With it comes a little less low and mid-range thrust than the 1198, followed by a massive lunge forward as all 192bhp (a 25bhp increase over the 1198) come flooding in. Yet while the Ducati is a fraction more powerful than its rival from BMW, it doesn't have quite the missile thrust at the very top end which so distinguishes the German bike."

 

I would disagree on the 7th day assertion though. I think the most stunning bike visually is the Tamburini designed MV Agusta F4. . might not be the highest performing one, but geez is that a gorgeous bike.

My vote for the Panigale was on sound alone; as for aesthetics, your choice is hard to argue with but I have always be partial to his 916/996/998 series myself; but then I am a Ducati guy what else can I say.

 

Rainman

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I would disagree on the 7th day assertion though. I think the most stunning bike visually is the Tamburini designed MV Agusta F4. . might not be the highest performing one, but geez is that a gorgeous bike.

My vote for the Panigale was on sound alone; as for aesthetics, your choice is hard to argue with but I have always be partial to his 916/996/998 series myself; but then I am a Ducati guy what else can I say.

I've never been a Duc guy - and certainly not a V2 guy either (I am totally underwhelmed by the 'power delivery' and so-called 'power band' compared to an IL4) - but I totally agree with Rainman on the 916 design. To me, it's the most beautiful motorcycle ever design and built.

 

I still don't know what Ducati did to Pierre Terblanche since he had to go and inflict the 999-and-later designs on them as retaliation....

 

 

Kai (donning the flame-proof suit)

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Carey;

 

I will be shocked if it isn't deemed a success; especially since Ducati seems to be selling a lot of bikes at least here in the US; their sound alone will be a marketing gimmick. The one big change I have read (somewhere) is that it's torque curve is more curved than the 1198's (or its predecessors) and the power delivery is more like a I4 and less linear than a L2 but I can't remember where I read that.

 

Kevin

 

It does seem to be doing well and I personally think it is a very nice looking bike but then I also liked (sry Kai) the 999 so what do I know :P . I have toyed with the idea of trading my K1200R in on a new S1000RR so I have considered the Panigale. It is a bit more money but not absurdly so (for the base at least). Sadly the Duc dealer in this area doesn't have a demo machine set up so I cant ride one right now (they cant get enough of them to justify it so that would support your assertion Rain - they are selling well).

 

Along the line of this thread, I have a question for you guys. Would you feel comfortable buying one of the school's retired 2010's S1000RRs? There are a few left and they range in miles from 20-23K. They have been ridden hard but you know they have been maintained well. It's an option that would make for a very nice second bike.

 

Thoughts?

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I found the article and although this section doesn't talk about the torque curve per se, it does describe it's performance.

Kevin Ash in the Telegraph writes: "The engine churns slowly before exploding into life, the ride-by-wire throttle response electric and compelling. The sound is unmistakably Ducati twin, but with a more urgent edge and a willingness to rev not seen – or heard – before. With it comes a little less low and mid-range thrust than the 1198, followed by a massive lunge forward as all 192bhp (a 25bhp increase over the 1198) come flooding in. Yet while the Ducati is a fraction more powerful than its rival from BMW, it doesn't have quite the missile thrust at the very top end which so distinguishes the German bike."

 

My vote for the Panigale was on sound alone; as for aesthetics, your choice is hard to argue with but I have always be partial to his 916/996/998 series myself; but then I am a Ducati guy what else can I say.

 

Here is the funny thing - the 1199 engine (in base factory gearing) compared to the 1198 - it is below the 1198 in torque almost linearly until about the 8k rpm level. Then it just stomps on it. So I can see how people are saying its more "like an i4:" because it has absurd amounts of torque/hp in the upper ranges where a lot of i4's really shine. It's rev-limit is still at 11500, so comparing against those 13-14k rpm machines is still a bit different. . I can see where people make the comparisons - but the difference is that its still a monster torque machine down lower - just not killing the 1198 (its predecessor) in that area. So I think a lot of writers are writing about that just from reading charts.

 

As compared to the BMW - the S1000RR really lives up high. Its a monster i4 and basically everything about is a monster. It doesn't have monster torque down low, but it just keeps delivering to its redline.,

 

On sound alone - the Panigale is a brute and great sounding bike. I think I like the 1098R exhaust note just a bit better. A bit more "raw" and "nasty". Both kill the BMW aurally but thats not what BMW addresses at all. If you want to hear a great sounding i4, go listen to the MV A F4 - - kind of bordering on the sound of a Ferrari Challenge Strradale.

 

 

It does seem to be doing well and I personally think it is a very nice looking bike but then I also liked (sry Kai) the 999 so what do I know :P . I have toyed with the idea of trading my K1200R in on a new S1000RR so I have considered the Panigale. It is a bit more money but not absurdly so (for the base at least). Sadly the Duc dealer in this area doesn't have a demo machine set up so I cant ride one right now (they cant get enough of them to justify it so that would support your assertion Rain - they are selling well).

 

Along the line of this thread, I have a question for you guys. Would you feel comfortable buying one of the school's retired 2010's S1000RRs? There are a few left and they range in miles from 20-23K. They have been ridden hard but you know they have been maintained well. It's an option that would make for a very nice second bike.

 

Thoughts?

 

I would say that Ducati has been so far successful. There are very very few 1199's available. Ducati is still only delivering to people on the waiting list. The only ones on the floor are ones that buyers backed out of due to lack of insurance or financing. I have to tip my hat off to Ducati for trying (reasonably successful) in trying to make sure everyone who was on the waiting list gets delivery before bikes somehow started showing up on dealer floors. Thats commendable on their part. The question is how successful they will be in the long term with this bike ? Tough to say. Personally I think they'll be fine. It's as good or better than the previous model and it looks pretty damn nice (outside of the elk ears which can be removed). The 1098/1198 is/was a great looking bike until you put it up next to a 1199. And the Ducati people who have the previous bikes all want the '99. It's not like people are saying - hate the new bike, I am buying the 1198S. . . . Unfortunately very few dealerships have an 1199 you can ride to test out.

 

Now, in terms of the S1000RR from the school. Well - you would think that they take a huge beating, but they take really really good care of them. They do have 20K miles and not sure what the schools asking - but at least you know the service has been taken care of on all of those bikes. If its a good price - then I imagine you'll have a top performing bike with all the kinks worked out of it. I like riding the S1000RR at the school and would have no qualms about getting one of their used ones in terms of maintenance/etc. The s1000RR just doesn't do it for me in terms of other things I want from a bike.

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Along the line of this thread, I have a question for you guys. Would you feel comfortable buying one of the school's retired 2010's S1000RRs? There are a few left and they range in miles from 20-23K. They have been ridden hard but you know they have been maintained well. It's an option that would make for a very nice second bike.

 

Thoughts?

 

I bought one. :) They come with all the electronics - quick shifter, abs, etc., and all the street stuff. The stock fairings have been packed in a box and never used so they are like new. They have been regularly maintained and you know you are buying from an honest seller, clean title, etc. Used BMWs are not that easy to come by, so I think the school bikes are a good deal. I jumped in early and grabbed one with low miles (it was the camera bike) and I've been happy with it.

 

There isn't any other sport bike out there I'd rather have - this bike handles great, it's comfortable to ride (by sport bike standards), it has lots of cool technology - the quick shifter is AWESOME - and it is blindingly fast... without being intimidating to ride. It's also reasonably affordable (a steal, when you consider its performance capabilities) and you can get track bits for it (fairings, etc) and if you did crash it you could repair it without having to take out a second mortgage on your house. I agree there are bikes that are more beautiful and/or rare, but I want to ride it not polish it and for overall performance and utility on street and track the BMW is the bomb. :)

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I wonder if Ducati is suffering from an "OMG, what did we do?" dilemma. They appear to have bet the house on a design concept that they just abandoned at the MotoGP level; then they held it out of SBK this season so they could test it in Superstock. Checka and the 1198 are struggling this season handicapped by a couple of DNF's so the decision to hold it out is curious under the circumstances. Having watched Dylan Code wring one out at NJMP back in May however, I can say that I finally heard a bike whose sound exceeds that of the RC51 which up until that point had been my most favorite sounding bike on the track.

 

Rainman;

 

Good point Rainman. I am interested to see how it all plays out. Personally I hope the Panagle is a success, at least commercially - I think that is better for the sport. And come to think of it, if it would help Checka beat Biaggi, I'm ok with that too :D .

 

And now I have got to hear one being ridden in anger. I think there is a Duc shop in couple of towns over...

 

Rainman,

Ducati did the same thing in 07. They ran the 999 in WSBK while the 1098 was on sale to the public. So I think that is just the way they operate. Let the new bike go through the teething pains in lesser series and run the tried and true in the top series. And the 1098R is still preforming quite well this year to date, more wins and podiums then the rest .

The 1199 isn't doing to bad in the FIM Superstock 1000 series either. I think things are looking good for the new bike.

 

I did get lucky enough to test an 1199 with the termies installed, no db killers either. I was concentrating more on the ergo's ( comparing the 1198 - 1199) than the shear performance. Plus I was being nice to the bike too, ~ 200 miles or so showing. The bike is more comfortable than the outgoing series and sounds real nice too. Low end grunt (3-6K) and rideability is about the same as my Sport Classic but twist the right bar and triple digits are there real quick B)

 

There was a guy at Barbers riding a 1199 and it sounded sweet at a nice clip. Was this the same one that Dylan rode at NJMP?

 

Retired school bikes: Now that's a thought. Hmmm!

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There was a guy at Barber riding a 1199 and it sounded sweet at a nice clip. Was this the same one that Dylan rode at NJMP?

From all accounts it was; the owner also had a Bayless 1098 w/ CF rims with him at NJMP so I assume it was with him in Alabama - nice work if you can get it.

 

Retired school bikes: Now that's a thought. Hmmm!

Hotfoot posted that she purchased one of the School bikes - rumor has it she had two podiums on the Big Track at Willow on Sunday on it; also nice work if you can get it!

 

Rain

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Hotfoot posted that she purchased one of the School bikes - rumor has it she had two podiums on the Big Track at Willow on Sunday on it; also nice work if you can get it!

 

Rain

 

Just to set the record straight - I did have great race results Sunday, but I wasn't riding the BMW, I was on my Moriwaki. I sing the praises of the BMW, but for sheer fun factor (and learning how to carry unreal corner speed) its hard to beat the Moriwaki, it's big fun to race.

 

Speaking of random bikes on the track, there was an MZ660 pitted near me - ever see one of those? Single cylinder 660cc engine.

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On the topic of exotic bikes I was always kinda partial to the Benelli TRE, as for Ducati styling, its the Desmosedici RR hands down but damn that price tag

 

Now for the 1199 and WSBK , I think its mostly due to Ducati not having a factory team, Althea Ducati is a private team, and being a private team decided to stick with the proven championship winning bike over the new model and playing development catch-up all season

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Just to set the record straight - I did have great race results Sunday, but I wasn't riding the BMW, I was on my Moriwaki. I sing the praises of the BMW, but for sheer fun factor (and learning how to carry unreal corner speed) its hard to beat the Moriwaki, it's big fun to race.

 

Speaking of random bikes on the track, there was an MZ660 pitted near me - ever see one of those? Single cylinder 660cc engine.

Congrats regardless of the bike, Hotfoot!

 

MZ660 - was that a Yamaha engine? They used to make the SZR660 single-cylinder sportsbike, which used the XTZ660 engine (42bhp or so...), but with USD forks and all the goodies at a time when barely any 600cc supersport bikes had USD forks. I hear it was loads of fun, even though it was never a great seller (too close in cost for 600cc IL4's and not enough ponies to attract the performance oriented young males)

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No I haven't seen an MZ that I know of, or just didn't pay attention. When I saw your post Hotfoot, I was thinking CZ not MZ. I'm glad I looked it up before making a fool of myself. And congrats on the races too.

 

Rain I didn't see the TB 1098R, it could be that he just didn't unload it.

As for the 1199 It may be next year or the year after. Too many irons in the fire right now so to speak.

I am looking at a 916 right now. But I'm a bid concerned that she may be a garage queen. I'll know more in a couple of days.

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Nothing sounds, nor feels like a Ducati... the end. The BMW is a stunningly competent, and very fast bike, probably by far the best of the litre bikes out of the box by a mile. You can't argue with the value for money of the things either, really, really impressive.

 

If you like Ducati's turn up your speakers and enjoy

Oh, this is my Ducati, and it makes about 200HP and sounds very, very angry. :unsure:

 

 

Bullet

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Nothing sounds, nor feels like a Ducati... the end. The BMW is a stunningly competent, and very fast bike, probably by far the best of the litre bikes out of the box by a mile. You can't argue with the value for money of the things either, really, really impressive.

 

If you like Ducati's turn up your speakers and enjoy

Oh, this is my Ducati, and it makes about 200HP and sounds very, very angry. :unsure:

 

 

Bullet

 

Nice Bullet! You make it look so easy. And that beauty has some growl.

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Nothing sounds, nor feels like a Ducati...

Or a Triumph Speed Triple :)

 

Had a blast today riding my S3 (under the watchful eyes of Pete) at our ARTD coach training. As good as the S1000RR is, there's zero chance I'd give up my S3 for one... although I must concede I have a neck issue and race bike ergos truly torture me.

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  • 9 months later...

A bloke me brother works with has bought himself an S1000RR, a bike he use for both commuting and track days, and offered bro to climb on for a test sit. To put it short - my brother hated it to the point that if that was the only bike he could have, he would quit street riding all together and possibly track days as well. It was without competition the worst, most uncomfortable riding position he'd ever tried. The handlebars felt like they kept the hands below the knees, forcing a mad forward cant of the torso. The seat was tall and stooping towards the tank at an unnatural angle. Finally, the pegs were so high and far aft that my brother doubted he could support his torso without heels on the boots if he let go of the bars. In other words, no heels and no hands and he'd fall flat faced on the tank.

 

Compared to the S1000RR his own Aprilia RSV Mille track bike felt like a cruiser, a pleasant sofa to spend a relaxed day on the road. And since my brother prefer a much sportier riding position than me, feeling fine on bikes that make me feel like I'm doing a constant headstand, the BMW doesn't sound like anything I'd enjoy ;)

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If you want a nice Ducati video, check this video of Canepa at Imola riding the Ducati 1199r

 

Look how fast those quick turns are - makes me want to go out and really work on quick turns. Stunned at how fast the bike is turned from side to side. . .

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