warregl Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 I found this video of an S1000RR crash. It's an interesting mix of perspectives as there is onboard video and then stills from a corner photographer. So I thought I would post it for a bit of accident analysis. What do you see as root causes in this one? Fair warning, while the rider escapes serious injury, his trusty steed doesn't fair so well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_m_h Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 ambition outweighed talent rear brake with that skidmark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rutter Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 The black line is just where the rear tyre is sliding along the floor whilst still spinning. Looking at his Tacho, you can see the revs stall just before it lets go, at the same time his hand rolls off slightly, so I think that is the cause, the weight shifts to the front momentarily, rear goes light and lets go, plus nothing the traction control can do, as he's come off the power, you don't see the orange TC light flash on the dash anywhere to suggest it's cutting in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSJDS Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Tough to really tell for sure, but was he adding throttle and lean angle (before the rear stepped out)? Good for him for not chopping the throttle completely and high siding, though his bike certainly looks like it did . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Have a look at his throttle application, what can you see? Even going back to the first corner of the video, what's immediately obvious, what rule's he braking? Bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khp Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Yeah, very choppy throttle application - on/off several times. As the rear steps out, I would expect the RPMs to pick up, but they are flat and then fall - which suggests that the rider was not rolling smoothly on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Yeah, very choppy throttle application - on/off several times. As the rear steps out, I would expect the RPMs to pick up, but they are flat and then fall - which suggests that the rider was not rolling smoothly on. we have our winner. Bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warregl Posted August 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 You all hit on what I saw/heard - if you compare the vid and the stills it looks like he may have been adding lean and throttle but the hard off and on throttle (very hard at 24 seconds) seemed to precipitate the slide. The revs not spiking was a nice catch Kai. I went back and looked at that several times and you are dead on. No surprise this is the first lesson in level 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukem Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Yeah, very choppy throttle application - on/off several times. As the rear steps out, I would expect the RPMs to pick up, but they are flat and then fall - which suggests that the rider was not rolling smoothly on. I don't disagree with that, but it's not why he crashed. He chops the throttle at the start of the corner, but then starts rolling on and is doing so when the back goes. If you watch the horizon, it continues to tilt right up to when the back lets go. He is doing the classic "rolling on + adding lean angle" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 the point is, his throttle application is not correct. He's not followed the rule, and it's certainly not what I'd call a good roll on, the incorrect roll on is what requires more lean angle. Certainly no throttle finesse to be seen there, and that's what's caused his crash. If you look closely, the bike actually gave him a warning before it lowsided him, the bars turned into the turn to the right. If he'd have been well connected on the bike, and relaxed and at that kind of level, he could of saved that. (probably). Bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aslcbr600 Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 I always wondered what made handlebars push like that and cause people to lowside, I see it all of the time in the Mulholland videos! I just thought it was due to over countersteering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 I always wondered what made handlebars push like that and cause people to lowside, I see it all of the time in the Mulholland videos! I just thought it was due to over countersteering. It's the rear of the bike stepping out of line, (sliding or spinning up) and the bike naturally compensates and steers into the slide. Is a bit scarry when you first start to feel it, can invoke lots of SR's. The key though is being well locked on, and being relaxed as you can feel the bars in your hands just gently wave and shimmy. It's the bike giving you feedback. Bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 So, I've said the guy might have been able to save it with the warning through the bars; how would he have done this? Bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukem Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 So, I've said the guy might have been able to save it with the warning through the bars; how would he have done this? Bullet Start picking the bike into the slide and check the throttle? (i.e don't continue to roll on, but don't roll off either) That or turn on the TC (jk) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 So, I've said the guy might have been able to save it with the warning through the bars; how would he have done this? Bullet Start picking the bike into the slide and check the throttle? (i.e don't continue to roll on, but don't roll off either) That or turn on the TC (jk) winner number 2. if the TC was good, which clearly he didn't either have on or too low a setting for his level of skill, (or it's poor normally you'd expect them to stop that well before that point of slide), you can't keep rolling on harder as the roll on was the intial problem all you could have done was check the throttle(i.e keep the throttle on but not roll anymore), and definitely, he wouldn't have wanted to close it, as that's how you get a highside. Bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khp Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 The revs not spiking was a nice catch Kai. I went back and looked at that several times and you are dead on. I had to view it a couple of times before it dawned on me But saving such a slide is not easy - you don't have much time to react in before it's too late. My own crash last year was 1/10th of 'OK rear is moving sideways to the left' and then getting spit off in an instant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonzilla Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 How much money would he have saved if he went to a riding school versus having to fix that? The good news:TRACK BIKE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 The revs not spiking was a nice catch Kai. I went back and looked at that several times and you are dead on. I had to view it a couple of times before it dawned on me But saving such a slide is not easy - you don't have much time to react in before it's too late. My own crash last year was 1/10th of 'OK rear is moving sideways to the left' and then getting spit off in an instant. It is possible though, as the initial slide was actually not that harsh, if he'd have been really delicate with his throttle control (which of course he wasn't as it caused his problem in the first instance), he might have been able to just let the bike drfit and balance and then stabilise. Very difficult in the moment I grant you, but it would have been his only hope. A very, very good point Jason rasied, training well worth it, over the bling. The bike didn't look that well at the end did it? (Oooops) Bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandyhee Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 just my guess: 1. into the turn too early 2. accelerate in the middle of corner 3. no effort to hang off 4. no effort to extend his knee (inside corner) 5. not lock onto the bike firmly correct me if i'm wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSJDS Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 just my guess: 1. into the turn too early 2. accelerate in the middle of corner 3. no effort to hang off 4. no effort to extend his knee (inside corner) 5. not lock onto the bike firmly correct me if i'm wrong To me, those are personal observations, not necessarily what caused his crash (though they certainly could have been contributing factors). 1. Turning in too early - he may have, but that didn't cause the crash. 2. Accelerate in the middle of the corner - as soon as the bike is at the proper lean angle (no more input on the bars), the throttle is rolled on smoothly and continuously throughout the remainder of the turn, so this statement is not correct. 3. No effort to hang off / no effort to extend his knee - it did look like he was at a pretty steep lean angle. If he was able to use less lean angle by getting his upper body pointed properly, the lousy throttle control may not have had such a devastating effect. The knee extension was a non-factor. 4. Not locked onto the bike firmly - it certainly didn't help, but was not the cause. Just my .02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mugget Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 Wow - I thought the crash was going to be as he was exiting the first right hand corner. He sure looked to have gunned the throttle while still carrying a bit of lean angle! Also the video states that he had a broken ankle, just to add insult to injury as the saying goes. Although I guess the broken ankle was the injury, and the smashed bike was the insult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khp Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 Trying to lessen the damage to your bike by putting yourself between the tarmac/curbs and the bike is a very bad idea indeed. Money can repair your bike, but complex fractures around/in your joints may never be fully repaired. Believe me, I speak from experience Kai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gr8Dane Posted August 25, 2012 Report Share Posted August 25, 2012 Looks like a double apex corner? If so, you don't really want to add throttle between the 2 apexes....in any event, judging by the horizon and the still shot's it's a pretty steep angle for him to be adding throttle. He chops the throttle only after realizing he's going sideways. I don't think he had a chance of saving it after that. He could have stood the bike up more before adding throttle, but maybe he was counting on Traction control to over-ride his errant throttle input? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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