Aging riders...what's techniques are priority?

[Jaybird180]

A is working too hard and C might be cheating the turn point - LoL

[Cobie Fair]

Coffee!!!  You rock, this is perfect.

OK, let's call "B" neutral attack angle, and "A" negative angle, "C" positive attack angle.

Name one specific thing that would change adversely from using B to using A?

 

[CoffeeFirst]

I'll get the ball rolling … requires more lean angle to set your line to the apex, which in turn uses more of your available traction. 

[Jaybird180]

Wait…I just realized that I often try to approach at B. Hmmmm….

[Cobie Fair]

Coffee, right you are, on both counts.  Jayb, good that you notice it.

How about the amount of head rotation that is needed to look into the turn?  An already challenging factor for many--to look in to the right next location/target right after the turn point (maybe the apex if it's in view).  With a negative attack angle (let's call A negative, B neutral, C positive attack angle), does one have to rotate their head more?  Let's say a rider did the 2-step technique (defined in Twist of the Wrist 2), and rotated their head 20 degrees into a turn, before turning.  With a negative attack angle of 10 degrees, then 50% more head rotation would be needed than "normal".

 

[CoffeeFirst]

No doubt, more head rotation is required to look into the turn / apex.  

You also reduce your "margin for error".  If you're on the B angle of attack and miss the turn point (so turning late) you still have plenty of pavement in front of you to get it done. However, if you're on the A angle of attack and miss the turn point, because you are pointed off track, you have less pavement directly in front of you to recover.  Depending on our pace this can also use far more of your mental attention than desired. 

[Cobie Fair]

Reduce the margin for error, good point, let's look at that for a moment, and one more piece of this.  If on the "A" attack angle, will the throttle timing have to change, meaning when the throttle control can begin to roll on?

 

[CoffeeFirst]

Hmmm.  A bike on attack angle A has a larger change of direction (turn) to make. As such, steering input will be slightly longer and it will take slightly longer (passage of time) to get the bike on line for apex and exit. So yes, throttle timing will change.  It might be almost imperceptible, but throttle roll-on will start later than a bike on attack angle B.

[Cobie Fair]

Good points Coffee.  Another way to look at it is more lean angle is used, as well as delayed throttle.  We used to spend a whole class on this point, there are quite a few pieces to it.

[not2old..yet]

Advice as we age?  go slow and stay out of traffic.  

As for the approach angle question last posed, I still use a late-apex approach, but as I've aged, I tend to follow the arc of the curve more, rather than "point-and-accelerate."  

How old am I ? turned 66 this past spring, in my 27th year of riding.  Have attended CSS levels 1 & 2 in the past 10 years, best thing I've ever done; my wife agrees, said I'm smoother and more relaxed, when I came back from the classes.  

[53Driver]

Original topic: aging (yeah, I'm 60) and wisdom (not terribly wise, per my SO)...

- Eyes don't "flick" as fast as they used to. That 0.3 second timing to attain a focal point seems to be getting longer...

- Glasses NEED the wider field of view lenses.

- Brain tells our eyes what to look for and as age increases, this 'automatic' function can be misleading as it gets lazy.

- To the point above, Strength Training is imperative for the aging body.  I watched both my parents lose their "personal mobility" as they got older and became part of their recliners.  I decided that wasn't for me, so 4 years ago I got a trainer and started.  Neck rotation to see through curves ( 'A' vs. 'C' in the picture) cannot be lazy; this requires strong, flexible neck muscles.  Being able to grip the bike with thighs and legs, to avoid hanging on to the bars, also requires strength.  

- The last part of aging and 'personal performance' is hormones.  The 'acceptable range' for a male's testosterone levels has decreased in the past 20 years from 400-1300 to 200-700.  Most of us are now being told by our GPs that out T level is 'acceptable' at 250 when it used to be 850 and to not worry about it.  This is wrong on many levels.  Aging women also need their levels (including T) checked based upon what is/was "normal" for the individual, not the current range set by the current batch of 20-45 year olds. Hormone levels play a huge part in how we see ourselves, the mental game, and slf-confidence.

As far as cornering goes, the negative attack angle approach requires a quicker flick and more lean angle which is getting harder to reproduce consistently.  Apexing too soon with premature throttle roll on leaves no one satisfied and is a recipe for a mishap.

Racing & passing not withstanding, a nice leisurely positive attack angle works well on the streets for me.

Cheers!

 

[Jaybird180]

One of the things I consciously worked on at a school day is the eye flick mentioned by @53Driver. I have the habit from the concrete jungle, but found it to be a personal liability on the track.

I discovered that with an intentionally smooth eye movement instead of a flick things slowed down, my accuracy improved, field of vision improved and SRs weren’t distracting me.

This was that ONE NUGGET for me that day from a lecture Dylan gave that I don’t remember anything else. It was that impactful for me, personally.

I try to practice it once in awhile. I usually don’t get it right, being such an ingrained bad habit. It also causes me to reign in my vision at a spot about 20-30 feet away, on the asphalt. This ruins my sense of speed, timing, line planning….
 

There was once when I got it right, my wife asked “why are you driving so fast?” Normally, she’s the faster driver and I’m risk averse but it didn’t seem “fast” to me at all, but smooth. I’d found a groove where I could hold a near constant throttle range and it yielded low G-forces, which also served to mask how fast I was going. Johnny Law wouldn’t have been happy with me at all if we crossed paths that day. Wrong environment for practice, but hey.

So, as I age I have to remember that my bad habits are insidious and I don’t get enough track time for the improvement I want.

[53Driver]

1 hour ago, Jaybird180 said:

So, as I age I have to remember that my bad habits are insidious and I don’t get enough track time for the improvement I want.

Well spoken, sir.

[Jaybird180]

Maybe I’ll take out a 2nd Mortgage and spend a year following the school around the country 🤣

[Cobie Fair]

You might get sick of us...