Liqui Moly rep...available for questions

[Cobie Fair]

We have a very nice relationship with the LM USA company, and their rep has been with them for years, very knowledgeable.  Checked in with him and he's quite willing to answer any questions.  

Obviously, LM has quite a bit more than just oil, their product line-up is impressive.  We have some nice personal endorsements on their products (our chief mechanic liked them so much, he paid full retail to put in his car, and immediately noticed a difference).

We'll start off by taking any questions here, and I'll get them forwarded.  So, fire away, pretty sure there won't be a question he can't answer, but anything from simple to technical will be fine.

Best,

Cobie

[Cobie Fair]

Here is the first question:  in modern engines (or any), what the is purpose of oil, and where does the most wear come from/happen? 

[Cobie Fair]

And the answer is:

Lubricate
Cool
Seal
Clean
Protect
Pressurize

Most of the wear comes from lack of, or breakdown of lubricity. (friction reducing anti-wear additives)
Every good oil should have an additive package that stays strong throughout the oil change interval to assist in this.
Carbon deposits and sludge formation are next to degrading any motor.

[Vinny Russo]

Hello there! I'm Vinny Russo with Liqui Moly, and I'm here to help. (sounding like a Government guy already). Some background - I was initially introduced to the Liqui Moly products 25 years ago with a an Import biz I was working with in SoCal. Tried some of the products in my old Camaro - and what it did to that car - I never looked back. I started with the Auto products for many years, and now you can't go into a European repair shop without them knowing about LM. 7 years ago we had Motorbike products here in the USA, and I switched to be in the Motorbike world (more fun!)  So I'm the Powersports Manager in the US and still love to talk and introduce Dealers, shops and regular folks on the benefits of good quality products. All to try and get your machines back to working like they were new. That's what you get from Germany's Best brand - Liqui Moly. Appreciate the invite from Cobie, and I'll do my best to answer in decent time!

[Hotfoot]

Hi Vinny! Thanks for being here. 

I'm curious what you think of using octane boosters, and what they actually do. I have a race bike that requires a higher octane fuel that is a bit hard to find. What would happen if I had to run the bike on 91 octane pump gas? What are the pros and cons of using an octane booster? The bike manual says to use 101 octane (RON) or higher fuel and typically around here (Southern CA) I can only get 91 (R+M/2) octane pump gas.

Also, if I do add an octane booster to fuel in my fuel tank, will it mix evenly? Does it separate over time? Can it safely sit in my bike's fuel tank for a month? Will it hurt the anti-slosh foam tank inserts?

Thanks in advance!

[Vinny Russo]

I have to first say that as a Liqui Moly Rep, I cannot officially address this as we don't have an Octane Booster. 

Unofficially, I would definitely contact your bike manufacturer to address this issue. Perhaps they have a solution - like possibly adding a "race Gas concentrate".

5 point Octane Boosters, as an example, will give a big assist to bikes with 87 octane fuel. Not so much boost to adding to 91 octane. They do mix well, and won't separate, BUT long term effects should be answered by the manufacturer, including damage to tank inserts.

[Cobie Fair]

Vinnie,

Further question to your initial answer on oil: the lubricity, and the additive package of reducing friction.  How long does that last in terms of miles?  I want to know for 2 applications:

1.  My daily driver (a Mustang).  How often between oil changes, and how do I really know?

2.  On a track bike like at our schools, how often should we change oil?  Some bikes ridden pretty hard, some not as hard.  

[Vinny Russo]

In regards to your Mustang, or any vehicle, the manufacturer will recommend a safe oil change interval. This is based on tests they make with the factory oil, in normal driving parameters over the period. Most oils should perform well under this interval - but not all oils are the same. Not everyone drives the same either. Lots of city (stop and go), or short trips, heavy pedal driving can degrade an oils additive package quicker. The only way to find out how well your oil is performing - is to do an Oil Analysis, that is sent in to a lab for reading how well many parameters/markers of the oil, are still within "good" ranges. This readout will also be provided by the Testing venue, with comments on the sample and an estimate of oil life left - or not. Then you can adjust you oil change interval based on that, or find a better quality oil that can hold up the good numbers longer.

Liqui Moly's Red Race/Street oils are dual purpose, so they can be used to manufacturer interval oil changes for normal street riding, but also for the high demands of strictly racing/track. Track, or racing bikes are harder ridden constantly so the oil change intervals will be much shorter than the average 5k miles for sure. All should be evaluated by the same parameters of an oil analysis. Records should to be kept on all the bikes to determine which ones will need a possible shorter drain interval (harder ridden) then the casual ridden bike (longer interval). Crew chiefs of two bike race teams evaluate this pretty quickly, you have a bigger challenge with over 30 bikes on premises!

I will say for racing, that any clutch slippage is usually the first thing that could possibly mean it's time to change the oil, before a scheduled change.

[CoffeeFirst]

Vinnie, 

Your point about oil analysis providing insights on remaining oil life, and therefore oil change intervals, makes sense.  A couple questions come to mind.  Where does one get this type of testing done? Do you have a sense as to the typical cost of an oil analysis? Are there any kind of self-testing kits available?

As to CSS's fleet of bikes I can see testing every bike, keeping track of the results on each bike and then changing the oil of each bike based its' own determined interval could be both costly and pretty darn difficult to execute. From a practical perspective I think it likely leaves CSS with testing a sample of bikes (mix of harder ridden coach bikes and easier ridden student bikes) and based on the oil analysis results determine a minimal oil changing interval and just apply it to all the bikes.

[Cobie Fair]

Vinnie,

CoffeeFirst asked my questions, made my comments.  Where can we look at getting some tests done?  Can you direct us on where, and what to ask for?  Particularly the laymen amongst us?

[Vinny Russo]

On 1/18/2023 at 8:51 AM, CoffeeFirst said:

Vinnie, 

Your point about oil analysis providing insights on remaining oil life, and therefore oil change intervals, makes sense.  A couple questions come to mind.  Where does one get this type of testing done? Do you have a sense as to the typical cost of an oil analysis? Are there any kind of self-testing kits available?

As to CSS's fleet of bikes I can see testing every bike, keeping track of the results on each bike and then changing the oil of each bike based its' own determined interval could be both costly and pretty darn difficult to execute. From a practical perspective I think it likely leaves CSS with testing a sample of bikes (mix of harder ridden coach bikes and easier ridden student bikes) and based on the oil analysis results determine a minimal oil changing interval and just apply it to all the bikes.

Myself and customers have been using guys like Blackstone Laboratories or OilVue. You can find them online. They will send you out kits including return labels. Used to be about $25 asks they will analyze your sample and give you a readout with comments.

I agree, that the Cali Superbike School should just take a sample # of a few bikes to get to an average oil change interval for all. 

 

[CoffeeFirst]

Vinnie, thanks for the information re test labs.  Much appreciated.

[Cobie Fair]

Yeah, I think this will be quite valuable.  I'll set up some testing.  A little more scientific than, "Hmmm...looks a little dark."

[Vinny Russo]

For sure - color, touch, taste and smell isn't very scientific. Lol.

[Jaybird180]

Similar to Hotfoot's question:

I have a carbureted 1992 Honda CB750 Nighthawk that doesn't get ridden often (10,445mi as I write this). We have 10% ethanol fuels here and I've decided to sell the bike due to the maintenance problems it gives after periods of non-use. Do you have a product recommendation that can stave off the need to have the carbs pulled and cleaned?

[Vinny Russo]

Our 4T Additive (Shooter #20142 - treats up to 2.5 gal, Large size #20048 - treats from 3 - 5.5 gal) and will protect, and keep the ethanol and water from interacting with any plastics/metals of, the whole fuel system for 1200 miles. Protects against the formation and removes harmful deposits like the gum, lacquer and varnish. If you are only riding the bike once every 2 months - I would use this every time you filled up.

Longer term protection thru a non-riding season 6 - 8 months, we have a Motorbike Stabilizer(#20052) with a convenient measuring cap.

[Jaybird180]

I ordered a pair and will give it a swirl.

[davebanks]

Hi Vinny, thanks for joining us squids and answering our questions! 

My questions are about fork oil.  Can you give a general overview of important fork oil properties and replacement intervals?  For instance, how much does the viscosity change from beginning of a track session to the end (20-30 minutes)?  How do you know when/if you should replace your fork oil?  Any suggestions on when to replace with a higher or lower viscosity to change suspension characteristics?

[Vinny Russo]

Hey Dave, just want to say that I am not a "Suspension Specialist", but I can offer a bit of insight. Replacing "any' fluid under normal use should be listed in the owner's manual. Recommended Schedules will change when Racing/Track days are involved. Hanging around my MotoAmerica teams in the paddocks over the years, has given me a chance to observe and ask questions about our oils as well. Unfortunately, no two teams are alike. Some changed every 2 race weekends, others halfway thru the Race season - others didn't change anything out until the end of season. (I believe the Teams "budget" might've also had an influence on this. Lol) Just like testing thru oil analysis on motor oils - a suspension shop should be able to do the same for you. It's the only way you'll really know how well the oil is holding up at that particular time frame.

Fork/Shock oils are always a single viscosity, but viscosity can change under heat. This is another instance where good quality oils will stay more consistent over the long haul than others. A 10 weight oil could get down to a 7.5 weight if it gets hot enough in the cylinders. Better additives can keep oils at optimum operating temperatures longer. On the Liqui Moly website, you can look up a fork/shock oil (or any oil) and check out it's Product Information sheet and see many specs of the oil including how the oil flows at different temps. (lower viscosity oils have a tendency to stay closer to their original rating)

From what I observed at the tracks, changing a viscosity oil to tune a ride is not the best adjustment. A better way is to adjust the settings of the fork/shock itself, to get the ride you require. Hopefully you have a good suspension guy to interpret, and adjust.

[D_Gray]

Check out those Haynes manuals, they probably have details beyond the normal consumer manual as well, or try get ahold of that more detailed manual they only sell to mechanics and hand out to dealership guys. Sometimes you can get them online as a PDF if you search. 

[Jaybird180]

 

[Jaybird180]

On 2/2/2023 at 10:03 AM, Vinny Russo said:

Our 4T Additive (Shooter #20142 - treats up to 2.5 gal, Large size #20048 - treats from 3 - 5.5 gal) and will protect, and keep the ethanol and water from interacting with any plastics/metals of, the whole fuel system for 1200 miles. Protects against the formation and removes harmful deposits like the gum, lacquer and varnish. If you are only riding the bike once every 2 months - I would use this every time you filled up.

Longer term protection thru a non-riding season 6 - 8 months, we have a Motorbike Stabilizer(#20052) with a convenient measuring cap.

My package arrived today. Tomorrow I'll have a look at the mix ratios and add it. I might even have a look to see if it's easy to drain the old gas first. I got enough to add to my other bikes, which seem to be more tolerant of lack of use.

[Jaybird180]

(SPOILER ALERT)...and after a LOT of patience (letting it sit for a few months), I was able to get my wife's 92' CB750 Nighthawk started today!

I've tried it a few times, no dice, and had even somewhat given up. But being stubborn (sometimes it's a good characteristic) I put the battery on trickle charger about 2 weeks ago. Since I was taking care of few garage tasks, on a humdinger I decided to try to get it started. It took about 6-7 attempts at different choke settings but eventually it wanted to fire and I was encouraged to continue to try. Having a healthy battery was essential to withstanding multiple attempts.

I'm not sure it it's good or not, but I think I have a better idea of where the leak is because the 4T is colored bright yellow (hope it doesn't permanently stain the aluminum). I hope that the issue is an improperly seated carb gasket, instead of a needle issue.

Eventually, I was able to ride it up and down my street. I tried some high-power 1st gear runs, but my street is pretty short. I wasn't wearing gear (pretty risky) and the power on the 750 came in around 7k, right when I needed to whoa-down for a U-turn.

I'll make a few phone calls and see what can be done to get her roadworthy again. I want to sell it (due to lack of use), but my wife won't let me - LoL.