Survey Question

[Cobie Fair]

Here's the question: when you corner aggresively, what single technique do you pay the most attention to? Steering (quickly)? Throttle control? Viusual skills? Body Position? What ranks top for you?

 

Cobie

[racer]

Here's the question: when you corner aggresively, what single technique do you pay the most attention to? Steering (quickly)? Throttle control? Viusual skills? Body Position? What ranks top for you?

 

Cobie

 

It's hard to logically pick just one. Technically, they are all important.

 

That said, I would guess that the skill a rider is least accomplished with will be the one he pays the most attention to.

 

For instance, for me, visual skills tend to be a natural thing, and I think I'm pretty solid in my steering skills, hence, I don't really think about them. But, having raced mostly small bore and 125, when I get on a 600 or larger, throttle control is tops on my list! Make sense?

[Cobie Fair]

For instance, for me, visual skills tend to be a natural thing, and I think I'm pretty solid in my steering skills, hence, I don't really think about them. But, having raced mostly small bore and 125, when I get on a 600 or larger, throttle control is tops on my list! Make sense?

 

Yep, got it.

[littlefield]

Turning late and quick. Partly to get a better line and partly because braking farther into the corner before turning feels more comfortable.

[fastlane duc]

Here's the question: when you corner aggresively, what single technique do you pay the most attention to? Steering (quickly)? Throttle control? Viusual skills? Body Position? What ranks top for you?

 

Cobie

 

 

Hi Cobie! Currently, what takes up the most of my attention is my point of timing for the steering change so that I can exit the turn consistently in roughly the same spot. That means that prior to the major steering change - I have already spent some attention on reference points and sub-products; throttle control, changes in body position, braking etc. If I haven't done those consistently and made the right decisions up to then - my point of timing for the steering change takes up a lot of my attention because I changed the inputs on the bike and may have to make a new decision about my point of timing for the steering change. That means I've moved from the thinking it through phase to the trial and error phase which changes the product - where I exit the turn, which can affect the rest of that lap. Faye Coker

[Cobie Fair]

Good answers all. Hope we get a few more answers, like to see if turning, and turn location are the big ones.

 

C

[2bigalow]

I agree with racer. It's hard to pick just one. I find myself thinking of each skill step by step as i approach and go thru the corner. Although I have the most fun using the hook turn. No matter how many times I do it, I'm still amazed at how much you can manipulate your line.

[aladdin]

I agree with what has been said that all are important but for me my speed entering the corner is the most important, not too fast or too slow. if i nail the speed right i can pay attention to turnpoint, looking into the corner, quick turn and rolling the throttle on thruout the turn. this is a good question and i too would like to hear from more people on this.

[harnois]

Number 1 for me at this point in my learning curve is the Visual Skills - Trying to look further ahead the "wide view" is new for me and thus currently takes up a lot of my attention. I look forward to the time when this becomes more natural for me.

 

Quick Turning demands a lot my attention in chicanes and esses but not so much otherwise. Although I think I've fairly decent at this already, at times I consciously try hard to lean it faster and further. In esses especially, quick turning feels like THE limiting factor on how fast one can go and still stay on the track, so it's not like I'm ever going to be done trying to do it better.

 

Throttle control and body position seem second nature or subconscious to me now so I don't normally have to pay much attention to them. Although I sometimes consiously look for places where I could be rolling on the throttle more aggressively, but what happens at mid-turn comes fairly naturally. I revisit body position consciously every now and then to make sure I haven't reverted back to any old habits.

[racer]

I agree with what has been said that all are important but for me my speed entering the corner is the most important, not too fast or too slow. [snip] this is a good question and i too would like to hear from more people on this.

 

I hadn't thought about entry speed. That is certainly high on my list when learning a new track (especially faster ones) and remains near the top as I always try to eek another half a mile per hour which gets increasingly difficult the faster you go.

 

I'd like to clarify what I mean by "throttle control" as there is more than one way to think of that. The basic skill of cracking the throttle early and continuing to roll it on through the corner is not something I generally think about. After so many miles and years on the racetrack, it really is second nature for me. When I say that throttle control becomes more of an issue for me when switching to a bigger bike, I mean that, when I am riding at the very limit of traction (say with both ends sliding), sensing just how much more throttle I can add without highsiding takes a good deal of my attention.

[Cobie Fair]

[i'd like to clarify what I mean by "throttle control" as there is more than one way to think of that. The basic skill of cracking the throttle early and continuing to roll it on through the corner is not something I generally think about. After so many miles and years on the racetrack, it really is second nature for me. When I say that throttle control becomes more of an issue for me when switching to a bigger bike, I mean that, when I am riding at the very limit of traction (say with both ends sliding), sensing just how much more throttle I can add without highsiding takes a good deal of my attention.

 

For sure when pushing it TC (throttle control) takes more attention. One rule that doesn't get as much notice is TC rule number #2 in Twist 2. I've started paying more attention to this aspect lately, both when and how.

 

I'm gonna be mean and let you guys find it

 

C

[racer]

For sure when pushing it TC (throttle control) takes more attention. One rule that doesn't get as much notice is TC rule number #2 in Twist 2. I've started paying more attention to this aspect lately, both when and how.

 

I'm gonna be mean and let you guys find it

 

C

 

"Throttle control rule number two: in any fast entry turn, calculate the roll-off as carefully as you would a roll-on." (p.30)

[fossilfuel]

For sure when pushing it TC (throttle control) takes more attention. One rule that doesn't get as much notice is TC rule number #2 in Twist 2. I've started paying more attention to this aspect lately, both when and how.

 

I'm gonna be mean and let you guys find it

 

C

 

"Throttle control rule number two: in any fast entry turn, calculate the roll-off as carefully as you would a roll-on." (p.30)

 

I have been focusing on turn in and will work on braking next time out. I had been worried about tucking the front so I was hesitant about trail braking into the corner. I watched the AMA races this weekend and paid close attention to the use of the brake in the turns. I can see to be fast, trail braking is a must. So I guess turn in and trail braking will be something I will have to work on.

[prand]

Here's the question: when you corner aggresively, what single technique do you pay the most attention to? Steering (quickly)? Throttle control? Viusual skills? Body Position? What ranks top for you?

 

Cobie

I'm sorry to say that the technique that I worked on the most is "when in doubt, gas it", but what I NEED to work on is corner entry precision. Picking RPs so that I can nail my turn-in point, corner entry speed, lean angle, etc. It seems to me that if you nail the corner entry and execute standard throttle control, you will have yourself one heck of a great turn! Is that right? Did I leave something out?

 

Paul

[Cobie Fair]

Here's the question: when you corner aggresively, what single technique do you pay the most attention to? Steering (quickly)? Throttle control? Viusual skills? Body Position? What ranks top for you?

 

Cobie

I'm sorry to say that the technique that I worked on the most is "when in doubt, gas it", but what I NEED to work on is corner entry precision. Picking RPs so that I can nail my turn-in point, corner entry speed, lean angle, etc. It seems to me that if you nail the corner entry and execute standard throttle control, you will have yourself one heck of a great turn! Is that right? Did I leave something out?

 

Paul

 

let us know how your turn entry precision works out.

 

C

[prand]

For sure when pushing it TC (throttle control) takes more attention. One rule that doesn't get as much notice is TC rule number #2 in Twist 2. I've started paying more attention to this aspect lately, both when and how.

 

I'm gonna be mean and let you guys find it

 

C

 

"Throttle control rule number two: in any fast entry turn, calculate the roll-off as carefully as you would a roll-on." (p.30)

 

I have been focusing on turn in and will work on braking next time out. I had been worried about tucking the front so I was hesitant about trail braking into the corner. I watched the AMA races this weekend and paid close attention to the use of the brake in the turns. I can see to be fast, trail braking is a must. So I guess turn in and trail braking will be something I will have to work on.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought TC rule #2 applied to those sweepers where you don't need to get on the brakes. Just roll off a bit before rolling back on. No?

 

Paul

[ltldvld]

Here's the question: when you corner aggresively, what single technique do you pay the most attention to? Steering (quickly)? Throttle control? Viusual skills? Body Position? What ranks top for you?

 

Cobie

 

Kinda new at this but for me since I have never been to the track and only ride the canyons and such, the visual skills for me is number one... one because obviously you cant always predict a corner on the streets and two well.. traffic.. I do have a tendancy to target fixate and have to force myself at times not to do that... bad habit I know but I am getting better at it.

[Cobie Fair]

 

Kinda new at this but for me since I have never been to the track and only ride the canyons and such, the visual skills for me is number one... one because obviously you cant always predict a corner on the streets and two well.. traffic.. I do have a tendancy to target fixate and have to force myself at times not to do that... bad habit I know but I am getting better at it.

 

Good answer, visual skills are key (we devote virtually a whole level to it).

[Rx3]

Visual skills for me, especially at tracks that I've never run. Picking out the right reference points can be a bit tricky. I wish I could figure out reference points faster than I currently do on tracks that I am unfamiliar with.

[racer]

For sure when pushing it TC (throttle control) takes more attention. One rule that doesn't get as much notice is TC rule number #2 in Twist 2. I've started paying more attention to this aspect lately, both when and how.

 

I'm gonna be mean and let you guys find it

 

C

 

"Throttle control rule number two: in any fast entry turn, calculate the roll-off as carefully as you would a roll-on." (p.30)

 

I have been focusing on turn in and will work on braking next time out. I had been worried about tucking the front so I was hesitant about trail braking into the corner. I watched the AMA races this weekend and paid close attention to the use of the brake in the turns. I can see to be fast, trail braking is a must. So I guess turn in and trail braking will be something I will have to work on.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought TC rule #2 applied to those sweepers where you don't need to get on the brakes. Just roll off a bit before rolling back on. No?

 

Paul

 

Hi Paul,

 

I'm not sure why fossilfuel quoted my reply to Cobie in his comment, but, I don't think he was responding to TC Rule #2.

 

In any case...

 

Yes, TC Rule #2 is applied to "fast entry" turns such as sweepers or carousels where you don't use the brakes very much and might not need to use them at all. In these types of turns, throttle control can be the sole method to reduce speed yet retain more entry speed and carry more overall speed throughout the turn by simply feathering the throttle a bit so the suspension remains in a more balanced state... as opposed to "charging in", rolling off (and/or braking lightly) and then accelerating again which unbalances the suspension to a greater degree creating less optimum conditions for max traction, hence, less speed. To quote Keith on page 30 of Twist II:

 

"In any turn (real braking turns excepted) where you are tempted to chop the throttle and/or use the brakes lightly, look at it with a suspicious eye and see if good throttle control won't gain an even better result."

 

So, assuming you need to reduce some speed but not very much (ie. you can't stay WFO, but, you aren't using much brake or any brake at all), by laying off the brake and smoothly rolling "out" a bit without rolling "off" (or closing the throttle completely), or, in fact, by rolling out as little as possible and/or spreading less roll out over a greater distance by rolling out earlier to stay as close to 50/50 (or 60/40) as possible, you can carry more overall speed throughout the process because the suspension remains at (or closer to) optimum balance for max traction.

 

Still too wordy, but... does that make sense to you?

 

---------------------

 

As to fossilfuel's idea that trailbraking is "a must to be fast"... it has been explained here many times by Keith and crew (and racers who actually ride fast as opposed to merely talk about riding fast after watching others do it on TV), that until you are already fast without trailbraking, trying to use it as a way to be fast will be counter-productive to your laptimes and detrimental to your learning curve. Keith used the analogy of building a house and one tool among many in your toolbox. I say trailbraking is one small specialized tool for special circumstances in a big box full of broad foundational or fundamental tools. It is NOT a foundational or fundamental skill. And it is definitely NOT "a must to be fast". It is a limited tool for limited circumstances.

 

IMO, aside from certain types of turns, trailbraking is a risky way to find about 1% of being fast. Until you are already 99% fast without it, focusing on trailbraking risks shortchanging the development of your real MUST skills like quick turn in, body position and getting back on the gas as early as possible to maintain optimum suspension balance. These are some MUST skills to master before you experiment with trailbraking as an alternate way to find the last 1%.

 

 

Cheers,

racer

[martys]

Here's the question: when you corner aggresively, what single technique do you pay the most attention to? Steering (quickly)? Throttle control? Viusual skills? Body Position? What ranks top for you?

 

Cobie

I'm sorry to say that the technique that I worked on the most is "when in doubt, gas it", but what I NEED to work on is corner entry precision. Picking RPs so that I can nail my turn-in point, corner entry speed, lean angle, etc. It seems to me that if you nail the corner entry and execute standard throttle control, you will have yourself one heck of a great turn! Is that right? Did I leave something out?

 

Paul

yup, this pretty much describes where I'm at right now - the entry precision part I mean. :-) I find myself practicing patience so as to not turn in too soon and working hard to hit the entry marks with each lap.

[Cobie Fair]

yup, this pretty much describes where I'm at right now - the entry precision part I mean. :-) I find myself practicing patience so as to not turn in too soon and working hard to hit the entry marks with each lap.

 

Got it martys, thanks.

 

Cobie