15 replies to this topic

[rapid van cleef]

 2012 470.jpg   643.53K   44 downloads  2012 457.jpg   189.8K   58 downloadshi guys. well this is my first post. ive started getting into track days and do as many as i can affored. i ride a 04 zx10. i have done level 1 here in new zealand but the school has shut its doors

the issue i am having is my legs ache like a B******* after track days. i usually have to come into the pits 1 lap early in each session as my legs get so sore. i never feel any fatigue in my arms and torso at all. i know i am very relaxed on the bars and smooth with the controls. i am now running in the 2nd fastest group  on the track days.

I was told by an instructor to push down on the inside peg to get the bike to tighten into the turns. after a clockwise track day my right thigh is killing me!   am i using this technique too much? i am not pushing on the outside peg at all but i do feel locked into thebike.  my outside arm is lying on the tank, head towards the mirror. i feel like its a major effort to get my knee out and hang off. it actually hurts my leg. im probably sitting in the middle of the seat when going through corners.   shold i move forwards to the tank and then hang off?

im 5' 11. 92 kgs. i go to the gym 3 times a week and use crosstrainer for 50 mins or so, plus core exercises.  

im running bridgestone BTR10 track biased tyres.  suspension has been set up

heres a few pics.

any tips please guys?

Attached Files

•  G2 (543).JPG   19.79K   47 downloads

[CBRKid]

Lock onto the bike with the outside leg instead of the inside leg, and bend that inside elbow...

[Steve Rutter]

Pushing down on the inside peg isn't going to do very much at all, if you're pushing this too hard then it could be contributing to the pain you're feeling. Also, if you're pushing your leg too far out in an attempt to get your knee down you'll be putting a lot of strain on your inner thigh, plus preventing your bike from leaning as far as it could.

[BLSJDS]

When I first read the title, I immediately thought "physical fitness / leg strength training", but after reading your post, I think the technique is causing your issue.  I'm not saying there wasn't a reason for what the instructor told you about pushing on the inside peg, but I agree with what Steve said.

FWIW - I talked to Cobie about a similar issue I was having a few years ago.  For the life of me, I could not get my inside leg into a comfortable and relaxed position in the corner.  My outside leg was locked in nicely, I was relaxed on the bars, but the inside leg always felt fatigued & improperly positioned.  It turned out to be something as simple as repositioning my inside foot on the foot peg as I approached & set up for the corner.

I had been keeping the balls of my feet on the foot peg and extending my knee outward as I went into (and around) the corner.  Now, I take my inside foot and turn the sole of my boot to face the bike and rest the pinky toe "ball" on it's side on the footpeg.  It was a night & day difference for me.  I could hang out in a corner all day in that position and my knee easily finds the pavement.  It might be worth giving something like this a try.

[Cobie Fair]

Don't think one of our coaches said to push on the inside peg .  If they did, I want to know!

The Lean Bike would be great, but if not possible, the Aussie branch guys should be able to help you at Level 2 with some body positioning tips.  OK, shameless pitch aside, the overall idea is use to just use enough told hold you on, and then how you hold on.  

Best,
CF

[ktk_ace]

given you have so much lean angle unused, you could try leaning out with just half a buttcheek on not so demanding turns...

and also what  BLSJDS said

repositioning your feet might help too

elso if you are into hardware upgrades, get a fully adjustable footrest  and tune it to your liking and ergonomics.

[Hotfoot]

Which part of your thigh hurts? Your quad muscle, on the top of your thigh, or your inside muscle you use for squeezing your knees together, or the outside muscle by your hip? or something else?

Also do you already have adjustable rearsets? If so, did you move them higher than stock?

[justin giron]

Have you read twist on weighting-outside-footpeg?  There's a thread active right now on this.
Is there also an issue with tightening up corners?
Ago

[636rider]

 rapid van cleef, on 25 April 2012 - 04:56 AM, said:

I was told by an instructor to push down on the inside peg to get the bike to tighten into the turns.

Wondering if you are told by a CSS instructor, and I bet a dollar on "NO".
Eager to find this answer. Thanks.

[rapid van cleef]

I was only told to push on the inside peg to tighten the turns if i felt it necessary.  i maybe doing it all the time....  and it wasnt a css coach.   i found the css coach very wishy washy in al honesty.    asked me how it felt  after each session.  and they  just gave me generic answers, nothing specific really.   i feel very relaxed and locked into the bike on the outside with my arm and leg.  should i not be weighting the inside peg at all?    i never feel sore arms/wrists or stomach/back. im relaxed enough in my hands tht i can take my left hand off the bars mid corner and the bike holds its line.  ive had other instructors at other courses say to wight the inside peg to help the bike pull tighter into the turn.  the css school here in NZ has stopped 'trading'.  

as far as my legs go, its the whole quad muscle thats aching like a *********.  i work out 3 times a week and  I cant just nip over to ozzie for a track day with css.  its not a short journey. 2000km to be exact.  but thanks for all the tips guys.

i pull my heel up and intothe frame of the bike and point the toes towards ths inside of the corner, resting on the peg with my tip toes.   ball of foot on the outside peg. does it look like im hanging off too much?   it feels to me like i have 1 but check off  the seat, from the middle of the seat. when approaching the corner, just before turning in, i make sure im set up in the middle of the seat, with 1 butt cheek off................at least thats what it feels like.  feels like im off the bike a lot.

thanks again

[BLSJDS]

 rapid van cleef, on 27 April 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

i pull my heel up and intothe frame of the bike and point the toes towards ths inside of the corner, resting on the peg with my tip toes.   ball of foot on the outside peg. does it look like im hanging off too much?   it feels to me like i have 1 but check off  the seat, from the middle of the seat. when approaching the corner, just before turning in, i make sure im set up in the middle of the seat, with 1 butt cheek off................at least thats what it feels like.  feels like im off the bike a lot.

thanks again

Based on the inside foot position you've described and from what I can tell from the pictures, you are positioning your foot like I used to do.  Try re-positioning it like I described - it was a huge difference for me.  If you are locked on with the outside leg, the inside leg should not be straining to support anything; it can just "hang out" there (pun intended).  You do not need to weight the inside peg at all.  

If you need to tighten up a turn, CSS teaches a drill / skill called the "hook turn", where you move your upper body a little more forward & down to the inside by essentially dropping your elbow and pointing it to the ground.  It works very well   .

Everyone has a different body type, degree of flexibility, strength, etc.  What is a comfortable position on the bike for some may not be for others.  You need to find that position so you can focus your attention elsewhere.

[Hotfoot]

You mentioned above that you could be trying to weight the inside peg all the time; that seems like it would have you, essentially, standing on the inside peg but with your leg really bent. Try that off the bike and see how long you can do it, it's exhausting! You end up putting all your weight on your quad muscle, at a very inefficient angle, I could see how your legs could get wiped out  very quickly.

Maybe on your next track day you can try NOT intentionally weighting that inside peg, and see what happens, then try weighting it, and see what changes. Personally I haven't seen weighting the inside peg have any effect on tightening my line - but as BLSJDS says, the hook turn, dropping the upper body down and inside, works wonders! And it is much less exhausting.

[Cobie Fair]

Hey Rapid,

That result from your coach is not the way it is supposed to be.  I've asked the UK guys to get a hold of you, but you could just shoot Spidey a note and get that rolling.  No one gets their head chopped off, not to worry!  This is just normal quality control .  But what you are describing is not the intended result, and there is definite, specific feedback you are supposed to get.

Here is Spidey's address, give him a shout:  spidey@superbikeschool.co.uk

Best,
CF

[rapid van cleef]

 Cobie Fair, on 27 April 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

Hey Rapid,

That result from your coach is not the way it is supposed to be.  I've asked the UK guys to get a hold of you, but you could just shoot Spidey a note and get that rolling.  No one gets their head chopped off, not to worry!  This is just normal quality control .  But what you are describing is not the intended result, and there is definite, specific feedback you are supposed to get.

Here is Spidey's address, give him a shout:  spidey@superbikeschool.co.uk

Best,
CF

hey. thanks for that.   Im in New Zealand.   Im not sure what good it would do for a guy in the UK to get hold of me?  Although I am from England.   I have re read the chapeter on pivot steering and thats kinda sunk in a bit better.   Pushing  down on the inside peg definetly tightens the turn.    but its absoloutley exhausting!.   can wait until the next day at the track.

[636rider]

 rapid van cleef, on 27 April 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

Pushing  down on the inside peg definetly tightens the turn.    but its absoloutley exhausting!.   can wait until the next day at the track.

I bet another dollar that you will like the "hook turn" as mentioned by BLSJDS and find it to be more effective than pushing down the inside peg--- assuming the hook turn tried out by yourself is same as instruction from Hotfoot or Cobie.  

[SteveBrouggy]

Hi Rapid. I came across this thread and wanted to speak to you about your comments regarding your experience at the schools in New Zealand. Is it possible that I can set up a dialogue with you about that? Cobie's comment of "That result from your coach is not the way it is supposed to be" is most definitely true, so I'd like to just have a chat with you to get more info on your experience. Is it possible to email me on steve@superbikeschool.com.au? I look forward to hearing from you...