aslcbr600

Say you are coming into the corner and you feel the front tire starting to slide or it starts sliding, would you be maintenance throttle and just allow the bike to "fix itself" or would a slight roll on of the throttle cause the front to slide more? I only ask because if the front is sliding and in my mind I am thinking "if I apply throttle and transfer weight to the rear it will help the front tire regain grip" although at the same time increasing throttle also means increasing speed so it could just amplify the sliding of the tire because if you are already sliding the front that means you are already on the very last limit of what the tire can handle for that corner entry speed and lean angle or maximum braking if you are trailbraking into the corner.

Unless things have changed for 2013 I asked if I could use my personal race bike for the 2day camp and they said they only allow you to use the S1000RR's for the 2day camps.

Well one thing sliding the rear tire does is scrub off the top layer of rubber and expose fresh rubber from under. However the consenquence would be shorter tire life of course.

Nice pass!

Sucks he wont be racing next year but good for him! He went out on a great ending.

Well I look at that as a positive experience to be around so many racers with much more skill and probably get more out of that vs going to a local class with all new racers. Am I right or am I crazy? lol

Now that the 2013 schedule is out I want to try and get my money in order for the first 2day camp and LVMS in Feb. This would be my first time attending the school so I would be doing 1&2 obviously. The 2013 race season starts in May roughly. This will be my first race season as well coming up and for CCS they allow the CODE RACE school to qualify as one of the new rider qualifications for a license. I was thinking I would take levels 1&2 and then the RACE school....would levels 1&2 provide enough of a base to work off of for the RACE school? What difference is their between the RACE school and say a club racing new rider race school that costs only a fraction of the price?

I am not saying my roll off is 100% perfect, however the bike was setup for a 190lbs rider and I am 20lbs shy of that and I only had the bike for about a month before winter hit so I didn't even get it on the track to play with it and dial in the suspension. I practice my throttle roll offs just as much as a smooth and even roll on. Maybe I am just reading it as excessive and it's really not. My CBR had all stock suspension and this 675 is a race suspension so again probably just a mix of interepitation and needed suspension adjustments.

I ride the 1050 triple (2012 Speed Triple) and I have no issue with roll offs whatsoever. The older Speed Triples had a reputation for heavily diving on the brakes but that was corrected in the 2011 redesign. I can't speak directly to the 675 triples but the few guys I know who track ride them never mentioned this as a problem in any way. Perhaps it is a suspension tuning problem? Or it could also be the quick turn throttle I forgot to mention that I am not 100% used to also lol..... Interesting. I'll have to see what the local 675 guys think about this problem. Yea let me know, I know the suspension needs adjusting because the original rider was heavier then I am. I would like to know because my roll offs aren't quick or snappy they are smooth and even but just seems more touchy then my CBR600 was.

I would love to have a 2013 675R, once the car is paid off I will be saving up for one!

I ride the 1050 triple (2012 Speed Triple) and I have no issue with roll offs whatsoever. The older Speed Triples had a reputation for heavily diving on the brakes but that was corrected in the 2011 redesign. I can't speak directly to the 675 triples but the few guys I know who track ride them never mentioned this as a problem in any way. Perhaps it is a suspension tuning problem? Or it could also be the quick turn throttle I forgot to mention that I am not 100% used to also lol.....

I know what you mean about a harsh kick if the throttle isn't rolled off exactly smooth....my 675 is like that, the triples do not like anything other then the most gentle roll off possible. On my CBR600RR the roll off with the same output is much more relaxed, you really have to mess up throttle control to get that action. However the 675 is the complete opposite and of course the lower the gear you are in the worse it is too. Remember this according to Keith, "bikes only do two things, change speed and turn. Riders do 7 different things" Along with evaluating your riding in a positive manner and not making yourself feel unable to "ride" also I would do as suggested and make sure everything is mechanically sound with the front suspension also. If you know your bike is as close to 100% as possible (no bike is perfect IMO) then you don't have to worry about all of the other factors, you know that the mistake was your input and go from there on evaluating how to fix it.

Nice video!

Ah gotcha!

CCS race organization has track maps for every road course they run races out of.......here ya go dude! http://www.ccsracing.us/venues/maps/lasvegasclassicmap.pdf

Street- Honda Shadow 750, I know, I know but man after my 2200mi trip on my CBR600RR across country it would have been a hell of a lot more comfortable on a bike like the shadow. It's not big and heavy, very comfortable and still somewhat agile. Track- Although I love my Daytona 675, the 2012 CBR1000RR would be my weapon of choice! Doesn't have the HP of the S1000 but the Honda fits me better.

Alright thanks!

Ah I didn't even think of that lol.....the suspension is pretty stiff, I currently weigh 180 and it barely sags when I sit on it currently. I haven't touched any of the suspension settings yet because I am still watching the Dave Moss videos to make sure I am doing the right adjustments. Say the settings are pretty much maxed out or close to but the sag numbers are good would new springs still be highly suggested?

The race bike I bought came with the following suspension upgrades: 2007 Triumph D675 -Race tech 20mm fork internals -Ohlins 3way rear shock The bike was setup for a 200lbs rider, my goal by next race season is to be no heavier then 160lbs with gear on. I would imagine with a 40lbs suspension setup difference that the adjustments would almost have to be maxed out to even get it within compliant range for my body weight? I guess what I am asking is should I go ahead set the budget aside for different fork internals and rear shock spring to have more room for suspension adjustment when it gets closer to season or will the adjustments with the current springs be able to reach the complaint range of me being 40lbs lighter?

Did you notice that the chatter got progressively worse as the race went on? And that the chatter was inconsistent, sometimes really bad and sometimes mild - even on the exact same parts of the track? What "suspension component" is most likely to be the cause of inconsistency in the bike's handling? In fact I did notice it wasn't consistent but I thought maybe it had something to do with variance in speed, track pavement or lean angle. I didn't notice they were different on the same parts of the track though so that part I did miss! If were talking suspension only I would have to venture the rear shock because the rear tire is more likely to slide or slip causing the rear swingarm to raise. If by quotation you actually mean throttle control and proper manipulation of the throttle would be the most likely cause.

It's hard to tell of what the rider was actually doing on the bike with bar input, but you can tell what he's doing with the gas, so as Hotfoot said, what did you hear? With rebound, that looked to me like not enough rebound damping. The rebound damping controls the return of the compressed spring. if it's too much it keeps the forks/shock too deep in it's stroke, gradually winding down the bike lower and lower (at it's worst). With too little damping as we have here, you get the spring just ping back quickly and you can get chatter. it effectively can induce this resonance to the bike (though tyres can do this a bit too). A spring in it's natural state as you'll probably be aware, will contract and expand and bounces either end of it's travel, gradually reducing the energy put into it. The dampers job is to control the rate of this action, you ideally want just enough to control the spring, but not too much. It can also be further confused by low and high speed damping, which many shocks have, (i.e. small little shocks or big ones). That help? Bullet Ah gotcha! I was watching a youtube video of a race engineer for Triumph bikes in the UK and he was going over suspension stuff and the difference in the adjustments between high speed and low speed settings. I also have Keith Codes guide to understanding your suspension in Andy Ibbott's book just haven't gotten to that part yet.

So it was pretty much a mixture of both rider and mechanical errors. I am still learning to better understand suspension, would this mean he needed go down in rebound? Too much rebound would increase chatter I would presume?

That's awesome, I have only been riding motorcycles for about 8 months now and I don't mean just sportbikes I mean overall. When I was seeing people that have been riding for many many years and they say riding schools have changed so much in a positive way in how they ride I had to get in on the action ASAP as to not develop any hard habits to break. In return I have soaked up tons of information not only specific to this forum but also to the Keith Code material and now Andy Ibbotts book as well. I see it with many racers too, guys just getting into the Expert field in their local race club and now just considering a riding school when if they would have went right off the get go they would have 3yrs of great information and skills to build off rather then just trial and error. I am really glad that the coaches and other experienced CSS students come on here and pitch in their .02 cents! I have probably learned just as much about riding/ racing on this forum as to what you can find in the CSS material. I can't wait to attend levels 1 & 2! Being relaxed on the bars is quite nice isn't it? I remember being so tense on the bars when I first started riding that my throttle hand would go numb! Of course being an untrained new rider I didn't blame myself I simply thought the grips weren't absorbing the vibration enough and my gloves were too uncomfortable.

He was off the gas when he crashed, I figured when I saw his front tire slide more then once their had to be something wrong mechanically or physically he was doing. Low tire pressure also crossed my mind but that was just a random guess not really anything I would have absolute confidence in saying was the issue. I didn't think about being too tight on the bars, when I can't see the persons body positioning I just subconsciously assume that they have proper body positioning. He would have to have quite the death grip to give off that much chatter right? I know with more speed everything is amplified but that still seems like a lot....would you say it's more mechanical or rider error? Better throttle control could have for sure made his race much smoother, it seemed like he waited until the very last second to get back to the gas. Also I noticed when he was going through the chicane he didn't neutralize the throttle he rolled off the throttle.

I am watching a video of an expert level CCS race and I am seeing a lot of vibration coming from the front end and then at 3:43 it looks like his front tire slid and then at 6:35 he gets that heavy vibration again and then he low sides. Is this due to an improper front suspension setup? I have never seen so much vibration from the front end like that!