What Is Needed To Make A Rider Better/faster?

[Cobie Fair]

So what does it take?

 

Like to hear what you guys think on this (especially the newer members and lurkers too).

 

Best,

CF

[AQAJR]

I would say instruction/knowledge plus practice will make a rider better and faster.

[hubbard_28]

I've always thought it was training and practice. I think the bike makes a small difference depending on the track. Nothing replaces knowledge though. Training, of course, gives you the tools, and practice lets you put the training into experience.

[Jaybird180]

So what does it take?

 

Like to hear what you guys think on this (especially the newer members and lurkers too).

 

Best,

CF

Better is a such a subjective measurement. Faster is (relatively) measurable. One could be faster, but also become more reckless, riskier and a friggin' danger to themselves and everyone around.

 

In order to be "better" we have to know what were comparing against and what the standard of good, better, best is to be judged on.

 

Keith touched on this in his articles on the merits of training. He also left STRONG hints that training alone won't cut it.

 

But, I digress.

[Bpez]

So what does it take?

 

Like to hear what you guys think on this (especially the newer members and lurkers too).

 

Best,

CF

 

In my opinion....seat time combined with the proper instruction and ongoing criticism to prevent bad habits from overtaking the good habits. You need to keep your head on straight since this sport can hurt you pretty quick. As you get better, you need to keep your emotions under control. Money definitely helps for the best gear and instruction. Where there's a will, there's a way....I know guys who will never spend a dime on instruction. What they don't realize is a couple of school days can easily be worth more than a dozen or more track days.

[acebobby]

commitment, If you want something enough, you can acheave it but only with hard work and the desire to get what you want, Like pretty much anything in life its easier to come up with excuses why not to do something,

Good coaching combined with a will to learn is very important, you must also be open to everyones opinion regarding technique and take from that whatever works for you but also have the ability to figure out what doesn't work for you.

[Cobie Fair]

One skill might be the ability to evaluate information. Prioritizing information too, what are the REALLY key skills, and in what order.

[Titus]

making your mind work gooder!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

^ intentional grammatical error for humor & emphasis purposes

[mike isbill]

1. accurate understanding of the mechanics of how the control functions of the motorcycle operate

2. accurate understanding of how to operate them

3. Ability to accurately/precisely operate them

4. Training on lines, how to select them, why they work and don't work

5. perfect practice (or as close to it as one can get) of the above, with appropriate feedback from a super-awesome coach.

6. experience

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

^ intentional grammatical error for humor & emphasis purposes

[chopperbill]

One skill might be the ability to evaluate information. Prioritizing information too, what are the REALLY key skills, and in what order.

 

 

1: Desire. With out it nothing can be achieved.2: Good instruction. Listen and learn!3: Practice. Put the good instruction to use.4: Persistence. The ability to continue even when it seems like you are not improving.5: A good bike. I have 2 Ducati's, a 749r and a 900 Super Sport. On Saturday my front brakes went south on the 749r, so Sunday I rode the 900 SS on the track for the very first time.....Big difference in the two bikes.6: Natural ability. With the above 5 items you will raise to the level of your natural ability.......period. That's my 2 cents.

[Jaybird180]

One skill might be the ability to evaluate information. Prioritizing information too, what are the REALLY key skills, and in what order.

 

 

1: Desire. With out it nothing can be achieved.2: Good instruction. Listen and learn!3: Practice. Put the good instruction to use.4: Persistence. The ability to continue even when it seems like you are not improving.5: A good bike. I have 2 Ducati's, a 749r and a 900 Super Sport. On Saturday my front brakes went south on the 749r, so Sunday I rode the 900 SS on the track for the very first time.....Big difference in the two bikes.6: Natural ability. With the above 5 items you will raise to the level of your natural ability.......period. That's my 2 cents.

I'd like to add to your list: Discipline

[Shany]

There are two different types of riding..

 

Track races riding (WSK, BSB, MotoGP)

And Street riding.

 

Both from both world will sharpen your skills to the highest posible level.

At race track you will sharpen your turns and clutch/brake control to the highest level

At street ride you will sharpen your awareness and bypassing to the highest level.

* Stunts like willy, stoppie and the rest will increase your balancing on your bike.

[hubbard_28]

One skill might be the ability to evaluate information. Prioritizing information too, what are the REALLY key skills, and in what order.

 

 

1: Desire. With out it nothing can be achieved.2: Good instruction. Listen and learn!3: Practice. Put the good instruction to use.4: Persistence. The ability to continue even when it seems like you are not improving.5: A good bike. I have 2 Ducati's, a 749r and a 900 Super Sport. On Saturday my front brakes went south on the 749r, so Sunday I rode the 900 SS on the track for the very first time.....Big difference in the two bikes.6: Natural ability. With the above 5 items you will raise to the level of your natural ability.......period. That's my 2 cents.

I'd like to add to your list: Discipline

And it needs to be higher on the list. Probably #2 or 3. Practicing without discipline is just running last.

And I think good instruction isn't as good as it would be if the rider isn't disciplined enough to keep working on what they were taught, even if it doesn't seem to be working. There have been a couple of things that people have told me that I just didn't think were helping me, but there was one lap each time that the lightbulb came on, and it was working. If I would have given up I wouldn't have shaved 12 seconds off average laptime without staying disciplined.

And I've been thinking about this part of the day, and I was going to say that desire, or "want" is probably #1. When my wife said she wanted a motorcycle I tried to talk her out of it to make sure she really wanted one, and she kept insisting. She's had some medical issues, but she'll probably be on the track by the end of next year.

 

Great list Chopperbill.

[Jaybird180]

There are two different types of riding..

 

Track races riding (WSK, BSB, MotoGP)

And Street riding.

 

Both from both world will sharpen your skills to the highest posible level.

At race track you will sharpen your turns and clutch/brake control to the highest level

At street ride you will sharpen your awareness and bypassing to the highest level.

* Stunts like willy, stoppie and the rest will increase your balancing on your bike.

Great perspective. Glad you threw that in there.

[chopperbill]

One skill might be the ability to evaluate information. Prioritizing information too, what are the REALLY key skills, and in what order.

 

 

1: Desire. With out it nothing can be achieved.2: Good instruction. Listen and learn!3: Practice. Put the good instruction to use.4: Persistence. The ability to continue even when it seems like you are not improving.5: A good bike. I have 2 Ducati's, a 749r and a 900 Super Sport. On Saturday my front brakes went south on the 749r, so Sunday I rode the 900 SS on the track for the very first time.....Big difference in the two bikes.6: Natural ability. With the above 5 items you will raise to the level of your natural ability.......period. That's my 2 cents.

I'd like to add to your list: Discipline

And it needs to be higher on the list. Probably #2 or 3. Practicing without discipline is just running last.

And I think good instruction isn't as good as it would be if the rider isn't disciplined enough to keep working on what they were taught, even if it doesn't seem to be working. There have been a couple of things that people have told me that I just didn't think were helping me, but there was one lap each time that the lightbulb came on, and it was working. If I would have given up I wouldn't have shaved 12 seconds off average laptime without staying disciplined.

And I've been thinking about this part of the day, and I was going to say that desire, or "want" is probably #1. When my wife said she wanted a motorcycle I tried to talk her out of it to make sure she really wanted one, and she kept insisting. She's had some medical issues, but she'll probably be on the track by the end of next year.

 

Great list Chopperbill.

 

 

I agree, disipline should be in there around #2 or #3. Bad practice will just reinforce bad habits.

[Shany]

also, to become a better rider, for the love of god keep going to CSS

1. we learn how to save our life.

2. we become better (Turns - brake/clutch control since its mainly track environment)

3. we help maintain a high level of instructors for the future generations.

 

I wonder though is CSS is also doing street riding? maybe bike trips where they can also teach how to behave on the streets where the riding is completely different?

[acebobby]

also, to become a better rider, for the love of god keep going to CSS

1. we learn how to save our life.

2. we become better (Turns - brake/clutch control since its mainly track environment)

3. we help maintain a high level of instructors for the future generations.

 

I wonder though is CSS is also doing street riding? maybe bike trips where they can also teach how to behave on the streets where the riding is completely different?

 

 

I do thousands of miles on the street, and find that from learning and practicing the techniques taught at CSS has made a massive improvement to my riding! I dont own a track bike, but use my road bike for only a few trackdays and a trip to the nurburgring every year, I even sacrificed a few trackdays this year to afford my level 1 and will be doing the same next year for levels 2 and 3, The principle is the same whether on road or track, you will find that the CSS here in the UK have been involved with training the police the techniques and we even have insurance companies that will give discounts on your bike insurance if you have attended the school,

[Cobie Fair]

I do thousands of miles on the street, and find that from learning and practicing the techniques taught at CSS has made a massive improvement to my riding! I dont own a track bike, but use my road bike for only a few trackdays and a trip to the nurburgring every year, I even sacrificed a few trackdays this year to afford my level 1 and will be doing the same next year for levels 2 and 3, The principle is the same whether on road or track, you will find that the CSS here in the UK have been involved with training the police the techniques and we even have insurance companies that will give discounts on your bike insurance if you have attended the school,

 

I hadn't heard specifically we'd trained UK cops, doesn't surprise me, we've had some come here too.

 

I found when I just rode on the street, and didn't get any track riding in over a few years, my riding gradually deteriorated.

[Jaybird180]

...CSS here in the UK have been involved with training the police the techniques ...

Oh, great! Just what we need: Faster Cops.

[acebobby]

I found when I just rode on the street, and didn't get any track riding in over a few years, my riding gradually deteriorated.

 

I think for sure your lap times will deteriorate without practice. but what I meant was that the techniques taught at the CSS will work on the road and the track as the principles are the same and you have to overcome the same SR's! I can say from my own personal experience that I am faster, smoother and most importantly safer on the road since learning the techniques, Where I live I unfortunately dont have the opportunity to get on the track every few weeks, I do however have the benefit of from the moment I leave the house hundreds of miles of twisties in every direction, So this is where I practice the techniques, All of the level one drills improved my road riding amazingly, and I think that when work my way through the rest of the levels I will improve even more.

The lnformation on this forum, the TOTW books, and attending the school has helped me loads!

Hope to get more tracktime next year, but L2 and L3 are at the top of my priority list!

[Jaybird180]

Ace- I agree with most of what you said, however I have to throw in a bit of caution. While track riding has accelerated my learning curve for street riding, I've found that the many aspects of the mindsets don't translate directly to the other discipline.

 

For example, take a 10 year street veteran's 1st time on the track and watch. Conversely notice than many professional racers are scared (insert expletive "s" word here)-less to ride on the street.

 

Personally, I've found that I can practice some things on the street, but not all of them without being dangerous, lawless, and just plain stupid. Conversely, it takes me awhile to stop looking for potholes on the track.

[acebobby]

Ace- I agree with most of what you said, however I have to throw in a bit of caution. While track riding has accelerated my learning curve for street riding, I've found that the many aspects of the mindsets don't translate directly to the other discipline.

 

For example, take a 10 year street veteran's 1st time on the track and watch. Conversely notice than many professional racers are scared (insert expletive "s" word here)-less to ride on the street.

 

Personally, I've found that I can practice some things on the street, but not all of them without being dangerous, lawless, and just plain stupid. Conversely, it takes me awhile to stop looking for potholes on the track.

 

 

I agree with what you are saying but my point was not specifically transferring track riding onto the street, but the techniques that are taught at CSS and explained in Keiths books i.e. TC rule #1 is as important on the street as the track or having the knowledge and ability to quick steer your bike out of harms way among lots of others. I am by no means saying treat the road as a race track or vice versa and fully agree with you about being dangerous, lawless, and just plain stupid, I also believe the safest place to practice new techniques is on a track which is why I like to go to school so much, I get to ride on track, I get to learn new skills, and I get advice from some of the best instructors in the world,

 

The topic asks What is needed to make a rider better/faster and getting educated in the techniques developed by Keith has so far worked for me, so I will be continuing to work through the levels, and practicing the contents of the TOTW books!

 

B

[Cobie Fair]

We here this pretty often--some find they can practice the techniques, some find it hard. Jaybird mentioned mindsets, so that might be a clue to what he's talking about, and maybe we could seperate that from straight technique.

 

Ace brought up exact technique, and listed specific ones. Aside from hanging off (where in some places they consider that "exibition of speed") what techniques could NOT be practiced.

 

What do you guys think on this?

 

CF

[Jaybird180]

Ace- I agree with most of what you said, however I have to throw in a bit of caution. While track riding has accelerated my learning curve for street riding, I've found that the many aspects of the mindsets don't translate directly to the other discipline.

 

For example, take a 10 year street veteran's 1st time on the track and watch. Conversely notice than many professional racers are scared (insert expletive "s" word here)-less to ride on the street.

 

Personally, I've found that I can practice some things on the street, but not all of them without being dangerous, lawless, and just plain stupid. Conversely, it takes me awhile to stop looking for potholes on the track.

 

 

I agree with what you are saying but my point was not specifically transferring track riding onto the street, but the techniques that are taught at CSS and explained in Keiths books i.e. TC rule #1 is as important on the street as the track or having the knowledge and ability to quick steer your bike out of harms way among lots of others. I am by no means saying treat the road as a race track or vice versa and fully agree with you about being dangerous, lawless, and just plain stupid, I also believe the safest place to practice new techniques is on a track which is why I like to go to school so much, I get to ride on track, I get to learn new skills, and I get advice from some of the best instructors in the world,

 

The topic asks What is needed to make a rider better/faster and getting educated in the techniques developed by Keith has so far worked for me, so I will be continuing to work through the levels, and practicing the contents of the TOTW books!

 

B

That will put you "miles" ahead of most street riders. Just be careful of creeping street habits onto the track and vice-versa. TC Rule #1 becomes less important at street speeds, which is why it get's violated so often.

[Cobie Fair]

That will put you "miles" ahead of most street riders. Just be careful of creeping street habits onto the track and vice-versa. TC Rule #1 becomes less important at street speeds, which is why it get's violated so often.

 

Yeah, you can get away with it (bad TC) most of the time street riding, so it doesn't force one to take another way. Might be one reason that all those dirt track kids turned into such good road-racers.