Confidence After Crashing

[ozfireblade]

Hey Guys

 

Well what a crappy weekend. I had a good day riding on Friday 13 (I didnt know!!!), practicing quick turns, two step and throttle control. All to be undone when I was heading home (1KM to go) and some scrotum had left a load of gravel around a roundabout (big circle in the road to control traffic) and the front tire washed out. Id tried to be Colin Edwards and use my knee and elbow to push myself back up but the back had stepped out and caught the rest of the gravel, so down she went with me providing support underneath for the rest of the sliding. The car behind me provided motivation to get off my butt and pick the bike up.

 

So after having a local bike mechanic come out and check it, all mechanically good i think. All I had was a bent right hand clip on, rearset and the whole right side fairing scratched and holed up. Luckily i stopped most of the cosmetic damage by being underneath. Full leathers people!!!

 

I have tried all weekend to try to get my confidence back, especially around roundabouts, but its just not happening. Iim feeling like I have just started riding again. I feel like my decision making ability has receded and I now have SR's firing all the time. I know its only been a couple of days but with Level 2 in 4 weeks I dont want to waste it. I have had 2 big crashes before with some hospital time but I didnt feel like this afterwards.

 

All in all Im lucky a car didnt roll over the top of me but my confidence is shot and I want it back......advice anyone on fixing my head or any other checks I need to do for my bike.

 

Thanks for reading my whinge

 

Dylan

[Bullet]

Hey Guys

 

Well what a crappy weekend. I had a good day riding on Friday 13 (I didnt know!!!), practicing quick turns, two step and throttle control. All to be undone when I was heading home (1KM to go) and some scrotum had left a load of gravel around a roundabout (big circle in the road to control traffic) and the front tire washed out. Id tried to be Colin Edwards and use my knee and elbow to push myself back up but the back had stepped out and caught the rest of the gravel, so down she went with me providing support underneath for the rest of the sliding. The car behind me provided motivation to get off my butt and pick the bike up.

 

So after having a local bike mechanic come out and check it, all mechanically good i think. All I had was a bent right hand clip on, rearset and the whole right side fairing scratched and holed up. Luckily i stopped most of the cosmetic damage by being underneath. Full leathers people!!!

 

I have tried all weekend to try to get my confidence back, especially around roundabouts, but its just not happening. Iim feeling like I have just started riding again. I feel like my decision making ability has receded and I now have SR's firing all the time. I know its only been a couple of days but with Level 2 in 4 weeks I dont want to waste it. I have had 2 big crashes before with some hospital time but I didnt feel like this afterwards.

 

All in all Im lucky a car didnt roll over the top of me but my confidence is shot and I want it back......advice anyone on fixing my head or any other checks I need to do for my bike.

 

Thanks for reading my whinge

 

Dylan

 

Hi Dylan,

 

Sorry to hear about your crash mate, sounds like you were very unlucky in how it happened, but more importantly you've not een hurt, your bike sounds relatively unscathed, and you've lived to tell another tale.

 

I have to say, as veteran of a few crashes myself over the years, I've always found it very easy to let go of the crashes, you have to understand why, (simple in your case I think), what you would do again to stop it from happening, (Did you spot it or fixate on it?), and just rider over it.

 

Now, you made a quite pertinent point at the end, and I'm wondering whether its the crash itself, or the fact that you nearly got hit by a car thats really bothering you? As you made a point about that specifically, and I've no doubt, having a close scrape with someone totally out of your control would bother you.

 

Hope that helps a bit mate?

 

Bullet

[ozfireblade]

Hey Bullet,

 

I was as is now a habit, doing the two step at the time, and it wasnt until i was feeling the front slide that I even knew something was wrong. Ido remember tryingto loook through as I was on the way down, but I think catching a glimpse of hte car behind me sort of blew things out. I've had 2 big crashes that were easier to deal with but maybe your right and Im stuck on hte car? Guess I'll see come level 2

 

thanks mate...hows your collarbone doing?

[Bullet]

Hey Bullet,

 

I was as is now a habit, doing the two step at the time, and it wasnt until i was feeling the front slide that I even knew something was wrong. Ido remember tryingto loook through as I was on the way down, but I think catching a glimpse of hte car behind me sort of blew things out. I've had 2 big crashes that were easier to deal with but maybe your right and Im stuck on hte car? Guess I'll see come level 2

 

thanks mate...hows your collarbone doing?

 

 

Cdollarbone big improvements since being operated and pinned thanks. Been 2 months now, and just starting to get back to work properly, being able to drive a little, etc, etc.

 

Hoping to be doing some physical training in about 1 month, hope to be back on Bike again in about March.

 

You're welcome on the comment/thoughts mate, keep us posted, and if you think of anything else you want to talk through, let us know mate.

 

Bullet

[Jaybird180]

I'm going to say something that many think but it's sometimes ugly to confront....so if you don't want to hear me say something controversial STOP READING MY POST.....

 

 

 

 

 

I'm thinking that in your case (and mine), confidence in one's own skills would go very far. It's tough for me to have confidence on the street because it's an unpredictable environment. Ever more, I think about going track-only for this reason. Eliminating one more variable, I think would go a long way toward progress.

[ozfireblade]

I'm going to say something that many think but it's sometimes ugly to confront....so if you don't want to hear me say something controversial STOP READING MY POST.....

 

 

 

 

 

I'm thinking that in your case (and mine), confidence in one's own skills would go very far. It's tough for me to have confidence on the street because it's an unpredictable environment. Ever more, I think about going track-only for this reason. Eliminating one more variable, I think would go a long way toward progress.

 

Yeh I think im feeling the same way, I mentioned it in another thread the other day that the road is no longer fun. At the moment Im lacking confidence to get the bike over guess I think Im going to lose traction. I know I wont but my head keeps telling me the bikes sliding when its not....

 

Thanks for the comments

 

Dylan

[Adam06]

Hi Dylan,

 

Sorry to hear about your fall mate. Never a pleasant thing.

 

For what it's worth, I would tend to think along the lines of Bullets and Jaybirds comments. The best solution to post crash confidence issues is found in gaining an understanding of what you did as a rider to contribute to the fall. Unfortunatley in the scenario you outlined, it's possible that you did everything correctly, and went down due to the gravel rather than any particular error on your part. Such are the risks of riding the road - an uncontrolled environment.

 

Just out of curiosity, which SR's do you find firing up the most now? For example, tense on the bars? off the gas? frantic hunting vision?

[ozfireblade]

Hi Dylan,

 

Sorry to hear about your fall mate. Never a pleasant thing.

 

For what it's worth, I would tend to think along the lines of Bullets and Jaybirds comments. The best solution to post crash confidence issues is found in gaining an understanding of what you did as a rider to contribute to the fall. Unfortunatley in the scenario you outlined, it's possible that you did everything correctly, and went down due to the gravel rather than any particular error on your part. Such are the risks of riding the road - an uncontrolled environment.

 

Just out of curiosity, which SR's do you find firing up the most now? For example, tense on the bars? off the gas? frantic hunting vision?

 

Hey Adam,

 

I went back yesterday to the spot, with the minister of war and finance(wife), and there was a tonne of gravel all over the place, like kitty litter. Im going to send the council a nasty letter and maybe my repair bills. I dont think I could have done anything different except go a different way.

 

Im only getting SR's when Im turning in right, bit of tunnel vision and Im finding that Im tensing up on the bars a bit and a being a little bit softer when pushing on the clip ons for countersteering, guess I think that theres no grip from the front? May have just remidied that though; the clip on had moved around the triple clamp(1 finger distance to tank from clip on @ full lock) so it felt weird when steering, like the front wanted to go out from under me, feels ok at the moment but I'll see tomorrow when I go for a ride, also have a new clip on coming just in case that ones bent too much.

 

But look on the bright side I get to buy some new gilles rearsets!!

 

Dylan

[Jaybird180]

Yeah, the Gilles is Sierra Hotel

[ozfireblade]

Yeh it is quality stuff, one of my clients sells all the gilles stuff really good customer service and no dramas.

 

Gilles Tooling

[Cobie Fair]

Hi Dylan,

 

1. If you have/get/gain a rock solid understanding of the key fundamentals, that's a good start. If you didn't do the survival reactions (chop the throttle, tense on the bars, etc.), then you didn't do anything wrong, other than maybe pushing too hard in the wrong environment/conditions.

2. There are top guys that crash in the am and still have won a race that day, so at some point there is a decision on this.

3. I still ride on the street and enjoy it, but I leave a fat margin of error. I still might be going pretty well, but there is a big margin.

4. I was at a talk Keith gave a few days back, and a similar situation was asked about, riding aggressively on a street road. Keith's advice was along the lines of, "I'd pre-run the road first." Seems simplistic, but..

 

My personal rule of thumb on street riding is, "do I have a way out/option if _____ happens?" If the answer is "no" then I'm in a dangerous situation, and I try and avoid those.

 

CF

[skingraph]

Oz, i feel ya bro.i have crashed lotsbut the most recent has got me a little puckered when riding. i high sided due to a radiator overflow leak. i bought the bike 15 min before the incident, as i left the fellows house i entered the highway and made my way home. i exited the highway and entered my nieghborhood, there is a turn just before my street that i love cuz it is constant radius that drops elevation on exit.

i got everything right on entry as i cracked the throttle i felt the rear slip smoothly and decided to continue rolling smoothly on(learned the hard way from previous crash). i realized that traction wasnt going to return when the slip increased to a slide, tried to lift the bike but failed as the slide was too fast for me to deal with. bike hit full lock and tossed me over, right as the turn opened and dropped. felt like i went twice as high as i probably did. i hit the ground and slid down hill with the bike following, waiting for us to stop so we can get outta the road. after i got her on her legs i looked at the rear tire and it was soaked, like black glass, in radiator fluid.

i have fixed all damages aswell as ripped the whole bike down looking for other gremlins(live and learn always check everylil detail on a used bike).

but since then i have little confidence in countersteering and cracking the throttle with a consistant roll thru the turn. the tires are ###### on the bike right now so i am goin to get new ones and go work a big parking lot to try and brake that idea that the bike will slide all the way everytime.

knowing what went wrong helps a lot, but your brain does this to teach you that hot burns and sharp cuts, if you can stop that seed from growing, youll be back to your old self.

 

cobie,

i totally agree with kieth's idea of a "walk thru". when skating you check the terrain see what yer dealing with, you walk the track on track days(im guessing), would make sense to ride the road first and watch for stationary hazards.

 

p.s. sorry that was a long post

[OveRReV]

i crashed a few months ago during my maiden race in the 400cc class, i was already in 3rd place then & when i entered T4 a bit too hot i went off roading & crashed at 140kmh, my body was sore all over & my joints were aching & i had trouble breathing but a check up from the local doctor revealed no broken bones so i still managed to step on to the podium to claim my 3rd place trophy during the 1st race.

 

when i analyzed what happened at that moment i admitted it was all my mistake, i should've braked a little to scrub off some speed but i let my over-enthusiasm get the better of me. admitting your mistakes is the first step in gaining back your confidence, as soon as i recovered a month later i was hitting the tracks again, i never let my crash dampen my confidence, most people would have given up then & there & i know a couple of 400cc racers who were very aggressive & confident before they themselves experienced their first crash. now they retired from racing after their first crash, i was DETERMINED not to follow in their footsteps, their fear of crashing got the better of them.

 

when i think about what happened to me during that 2nd race i can't help but smaile & giggle a little about my boneheaded mistake, it could've been avoided if i was just a bit more patient. the next time i join another race i will be much better prepared, for now more trackdays for me until i get within 5 seconds of the lap record, on street tires, then i would have the confidence needed to run with the big boys.

[spthomas]

had left a load of gravel around a roundabout...

Sorry to hear about this. I was wondering if this was the first time there had been gravel in this area? It sounds like that was the case. On my way home I turn into a left turn lane on a divided highway and one day the whole lane was covered in that kitty litter looking gravel. It looked like maybe there was a fuel spill and they use that stuff to soak it up. Fortunately I was in my car that day because I hit it going about 65mph and my ABS kicked in. If I was on my bike it would have been a problem I think. Since then I'm a lot more cautious about intersections and not coming up to them so hot (I have a bad habit of liking to brake hard).

[ozfireblade]

Yeh normal everyday road that I use and its in an area that has recently had a lot of traffic so I think it may be similar to what your saying, just a ###### bit of timing on my behalf

[Jaybird180]

for now more trackdays for me until i get within 5 seconds of the lap record, on street tires, then i would have the confidence needed to run with the big boys.

 

What about using average lap times of race winners and setting milestones for yourself of say 140%, 120%, 110%. And then perhaps throwing your hat back in the ring at around 115%?

[OveRReV]

What about using average lap times of race winners and setting milestones for yourself of say 140%, 120%, 110%. And then perhaps throwing your hat back in the ring at around 115%?

 

i might just do that, i'll probably borrow an AIM lap timer from my racer friend. i already know what lap times are needed to win in the class i am shooting for & the racers are all running BT003 or GP Racer DOT race tires & i'm already 3seconds off the average lap times of teh race winner on Pilot Power street tires.

 

i'm waiting for a set of Dunlop Q2 coming from the USA, nobody's got them here yet & i'd like to be the first one to do so & see if i can get into the same lap times on Q2's as they did on DOT race rubber, i've heard lots of great things from the Q2's.

 

i've taken Keith's article to heart & i want to master the "bands of traction" which is why i am still running street rubber for the last 4yrs, it's only now that i plan to upgrade to better rubber after i finally upgraded my fork internals & rear shock. i run Ohlins fork springs with the stock HMAS fork valves modified & reshimmed by me & a WP 4618 rear shock with the correct spring for my weight.

 

i run in the advanced group where everybody is on DOT race or hypersport multi compound tire, i'm probably the only anomaly who runs street tires in that group, i've learned so much by practicing with street tires, i'm now getting at the point where i can slide the rear tire when i get on the gas hard & i'm having lots of fun doing it, i could also feel the front tire push every now & then.

 

over here most riders don't even bother tweaking the suspension thinking it would cause them to crash so they slip on some DOT race rubber it will solve all their traction & suspension problems but then somebody blows past them on the outside riding on street rubber & that makes them surprised & more confused than ever. it's like the scene on the opening of the TOTW2 video where that CBR Repsol guy with the D211GP tires, he just couldn't tell/feel the difference between DOT race & street tires.