Body Position For Tight Corner After Brake

[troy0907]

Hi all,

I am a newbie, I have been to the track 3 times and I have an issue that I hope someone will clear it for me.

 

Normally I try to keep my body away from the tank abit for easily shifting from side to side. However, I found it is extremely hard to set up for a tight corner after heaps of braking. My body must fight a lot to keep the position- away from the tank and relax the bar. BUt the true is that i feel a lot of weight on the bar because my knee can not fully support my body. As a result i mess it up and this had caused me crashing.

Should I just use the tank as the base to take all the braking force so that i can relax the bar more and set up for corner?

I dont know what is the right thing to do here.

 

Thanks

Troy

(sorry if my English is hard to understand)

[636rider]

Hi all,

I am a newbie, I have been to the track 3 times and I have an issue that I hope someone will clear it for me.

 

Normally I try to keep my body away from the tank abit for easily shifting from side to side. However, I found it is extremely hard to set up for a tight corner after heaps of braking. My body must fight a lot to keep the position- away from the tank and relax the bar. BUt the true is that i feel a lot of weight on the bar because my knee can not fully support my body. As a result i mess it up and this had caused me crashing.

Should I just use the tank as the base to take all the braking force so that i can relax the bar more and set up for corner?

I dont know what is the right thing to do here.

 

Thanks

Troy

(sorry if my English is hard to understand)

Hello Troy,

Have you tried a pair of tight-fit leather pant (your leg won't shift inside), with Tech Spec or similar on the tank, and use your knee to grip the tank, (or one leg to anchor the tank)? Using the knee to anchor will help no-load at handle bar.

[troy0907]

I am having a normal leather pant. what is the tight-fit leather pant? I have not heard about it.

I will buy some side pads for the tanks. Thanks for the tips.

Troy

[636rider]

I am having a normal leather pant. what is the tight-fit leather pant? I have not heard about it.

I try to say the pant will fit snugly so that your leg will not move relatively to the pant as the pant grips the tank-- similar to when your thigh touches the tank with bare skin.

[fossilfuel]

Hi all,

I am a newbie, I have been to the track 3 times and I have an issue that I hope someone will clear it for me.

 

Normally I try to keep my body away from the tank abit for easily shifting from side to side. However, I found it is extremely hard to set up for a tight corner after heaps of braking. My body must fight a lot to keep the position- away from the tank and relax the bar. BUt the true is that i feel a lot of weight on the bar because my knee can not fully support my body. As a result i mess it up and this had caused me crashing.

Should I just use the tank as the base to take all the braking force so that i can relax the bar more and set up for corner?

I dont know what is the right thing to do here.

 

Thanks

Troy

(sorry if my English is hard to understand)

 

Troy,

I hug the tank. Hugging the tank lets me take all the weight off the bars. Some will say you shouldn't do this but they will also say that the most important aspect of getting your weight off the bike is the head and upper torso not necessarily sticking your knee out. You can still do this when you hug the tank. I tried sitting back and putting my knee in the tank but this was tedious for me as I have long legs. I like to position my inner thigh so that is holding me as I transfer all my weight to the inside peg. I improved my times and am more relaxed. Good luck!

[troy0907]

Thanks I will let both option a try at the next track day. And on the way, the two wrist books + DVD. I need to stop this regular crashing of me.

[ozfireblade]

Thanks I will let both option a try at the next track day. And on the way, the two wrist books + DVD. I need to stop this regular crashing of me.

 

 

Gday Troy,

 

Like the others have said tech spec tank grip or stomp grip will help grip the tank with your legs, thereby providing you with more stability and enabaling you to loosen up the arms and let the bike control itself. Im unsure of how your fitness is but i would also suggest trying to build the strength up in your legs, like riding bikes etc, this should help you with leg strength to grip the tank.

 

I notice you say you have regular crashing is this because you are riding @ 100% and adjusting body position whilst turning? If it is I would suggest for you to slow down to 65% and practice sorting your body position out before braking. Try one thing at a time mate, pranging is an expensive way to learn.

 

All the best

[troy0907]

You have made a very good point. That was true. I was on the brake + trying to downshift the gear + sorting out my position at the same time. I know it is crazy. I must remember well set up before the corner. I will take into consideration all of what you said. crashing is way too expensive way to learn. I plan to get to superbike school soon. Hope it will help.

[ozfireblade]

You have made a very good point. That was true. I was on the brake + trying to downshift the gear + sorting out my position at the same time. I know it is crazy. I must remember well set up before the corner. I will take into consideration all of what you said. crashing is way too expensive way to learn. I plan to get to superbike school soon. Hope it will help.

 

 

No probs mate, the school will definately help buddy.

 

Take it easy

[tweek]

You have made a very good point. That was true. I was on the brake + trying to downshift the gear + sorting out my position at the same time. I know it is crazy. I must remember well set up before the corner. I will take into consideration all of what you said. crashing is way too expensive way to learn. I plan to get to superbike school soon. Hope it will help.

 

 

You're trying to do too much all at once. Slow down your pace until you get comfortable. Rushing through getting this stuff done all at once will put your on your arse everyday.

 

To start:

1. do Level 1 w/ CSS as soon as you can

2. For now, put the bike in 3rd and leave it alone. Focus on the other stuf (turning, braking, throttle)

3. The sequence for me is: shift my body into the turn with my inner thigh bracing against the tank (I have tech spec pads they rock), then hard on the brakes, turn in, trial off the brakes (sure to make my CSS coaches happy to hear) and back on to the throttle.

4. Above all else keep looking where you want the biek to go.

 

 

I love CSS and highly recomend going to them. HOwever, if you really are crashing a lot: for your sake and the riders on track with you get some coaching from a pro before going out again. You'll kill yourself and possibly hurt other riders doing that.

[Jaybird180]

Keep in mind Tweek, that CSS doesn't teach trailbraking, which is what you described.

[troy0907]

Thanks Tweek, advices taken.

 

Just had the tech spec grips on the tank yesterday. Feel great already.. so much grip from it.

 

school will not happen until September as no course available. I plan 1 or 2 track days before it. I will try to make sure no one will get hurt from my mistakes.

Troy

[ozfireblade]

Thanks Tweek, advices taken.

 

Just had the tech spec grips on the tank yesterday. Feel great already.. so much grip from it.

 

school will not happen until September as no course available. I plan 1 or 2 track days before it. I will try to make sure no one will get hurt from my mistakes.

Troy

 

 

Troy,

 

Remeber that the Tech Spec grips are reusable so you can remove them and change position to suit your riding, it took me a few goes to get it right and Mikey(US coach) helped me put them in the right spot..Good one Mikey!!!.

 

You will still need to grip the tank with your legs just in case you ride a bike with none on it. This gets you in to a habit/ routine that will relax your arms for riding, so practice one thing at a time on your track days and by the school you should have a firm knowledge for the coaches to build on.

 

Dylan

[troy0907]

Hi Dylan,

 

The tech Spec are quite big. I ended up covering up almost the area on the side of the tank.

 

I will try to remember "one thing at a time". I figure out why i crashed the other day. I was too busy deciding on braking with one or two fingers, so that i can do the downshift while bipping the throttle. Stupid me i know.

 

Thanks all of you for your advices. Great forum and extremely helpful people.

 

Troy

 

 

[tweek]

I will try to remember "one thing at a time". I figure out why i crashed the other day. I was too busy deciding on braking with one or two fingers, so that i can do the downshift while bipping the throttle. Stupid me i know.

 

It's funny but I used to have that same problem. I'd use 1 finger for turn 1, my whole hand for 2 and then 2 fingers for the next. All over the place. Ty got on to me about it so I settled on always using 2. No matter what 2 finger. I don't blip the throttle. The ZX6 has an ok slipper and I feather the clutch out to help it.

 

Just make things as easy for yourself as possible. Simplify, simplify, simplify.

[tweek]

Keep in mind Tweek, that CSS doesn't teach trailbraking, which is what you described.

 

Yeah, I'm very aware of that and learning to do both has been an interesting excercise, one that I'll discuss elsewhere

[khp]

I will try to remember "one thing at a time". I figure out why i crashed the other day. I was too busy deciding on braking with one or two fingers, so that i can do the downshift while bipping the throttle. Stupid me i know.

 

It's funny but I used to have that same problem. I'd use 1 finger for turn 1, my whole hand for 2 and then 2 fingers for the next. All over the place. Ty got on to me about it so I settled on always using 2. No matter what 2 finger. I don't blip the throttle. The ZX6 has an ok slipper and I feather the clutch out to help it.

 

I use two fingers as well, using the ring-finger and the pinkie to blip the throttle (both on the street and on the track - I don't feel my R6's slipper slips).

However, be warned that if you run into a situation where you suddenly need to brake very hard (e.g. an emergency braking manoeuvre on the street), you tend to use all four fingers.

 

I would have sworn I'd never do that, due to 10 years of 2-fingered practice on street and track, but when came to showdown (had to brake for a car in rush-hour), I grabbed the front brake with the full hand.

 

Cheers,

 

Kai

[ozfireblade]

I will try to remember "one thing at a time". I figure out why i crashed the other day. I was too busy deciding on braking with one or two fingers, so that i can do the downshift while bipping the throttle. Stupid me i know.

 

It's funny but I used to have that same problem. I'd use 1 finger for turn 1, my whole hand for 2 and then 2 fingers for the next. All over the place. Ty got on to me about it so I settled on always using 2. No matter what 2 finger. I don't blip the throttle. The ZX6 has an ok slipper and I feather the clutch out to help it.

 

I use two fingers as well, using the ring-finger and the pinkie to blip the throttle (both on the street and on the track - I don't feel my R6's slipper slips).

However, be warned that if you run into a situation where you suddenly need to brake very hard (e.g. an emergency braking manoeuvre on the street), you tend to use all four fingers.

 

I would have sworn I'd never do that, due to 10 years of 2-fingered practice on street and track, but when came to showdown (had to brake for a car in rush-hour), I grabbed the front brake with the full hand.

 

Cheers,

 

Kai

 

I used to use one or 2 fingers when braking but now I use all 4. I have found I have more control when braking hard and I dont have to squeeze as hard as I did with 2 meaning I'm not as stiff through my hands, plus if its good enough for Rossi to do I'll do it as well

[troy0907]

Well its fixed. 30th of May is my next track day. I will try to get those advices of yours in to practice. One other issue i found out today when i sat on my bike. I was sitting too far from the tank which made it harder for my legs to support my body weight. So many things to learn.

 

For the braking, i will now go for 2 fingers. I dont want to decide in the middle of the turn how many i should use..

[faffi]

Keep in mind Tweek, that CSS doesn't teach trailbraking, which is what you described.

 

I have been a strong advocate for trail braking, particularly on the road, despite few if any agreeing with me. Maybe I'm just stubborn.

 

However, I'm currently reading Kevin Cameron's Sportbike Performance Handbook, 2nd edition. Here he describes trail braking as something used as a safety anchor for the insecure (fits me ). He goes on to explain how Spencer would brake as hard as possible, let go of the breaks and instantly progress to toss the bike quickly onto its side. No time lost in transition; he was either braking, steering or leaning/cornering, leaving all available grip for just one task at a time.

 

He further explained that really deep braking could destroy the front tyre in as little as 5-6 laps and that time was made by getting on the throttle sooner because that gave you extra speed you would carry with you all the way to the next braking point, whereas braking later only gained a couple of bike lengths at best, distance usually lost before the exit unless you managed to somehow still hit the apex and keep those behind, well, behind.

 

There isn't anything revolutionary in these statements other than I always thought Freddie used to brake for longer. Thinking that he slid the front pretty hard without using the brake does tell something about the forces involved.

 

I'm no racer, never will be. And I will continue to keep the front brake on a hint around blind corners until I can see the road is clear, but I'm going to continue practicing the no-brakes-drill I began with last season after joining this forum. And practice getting on the throttle sooner.

[dmj120]

 

He further explained that really deep braking could destroy the front tyre in as little as 5-6 laps and that time was made by getting on the throttle sooner because that gave you extra speed you would carry with you all the way to the next braking point, whereas braking later only gained a couple of bike lengths at best, distance usually lost before the exit unless you managed to somehow still hit the apex and keep those behind, well, behind.

 

 

Could this be one -if not the primary- reason why most racers don't attempt this maneuver several times (aside from 'showing one's hand')?

[Kevin Kane]

I use two fingers as well, using the ring-finger and the pinkie to blip the throttle (both on the street and on the track - I don't feel my R6's slipper slips).

However, be warned that if you run into a situation where you suddenly need to brake very hard (e.g. an emergency braking manoeuvre on the street), you tend to use all four fingers.

 

I would have sworn I'd never do that, due to 10 years of 2-fingered practice on street and track, but when came to showdown (had to brake for a car in rush-hour), I grabbed the front brake with the full hand.

Kai

Well don't call me late for the party but I just re-read this and thought that I would add my 2 cents [albeit late] into this discussion. I know later into this thread there was a sidebar on trail breaking and I won't go into that but I do want to share a tip I did get from a fairly well known motorcyclist/author's book who is a big proponent of trail breaking. Anyway he suggested (I think if was N.I.) to practicing panic braking when you ride. Well I may have taken that advice too much to heart but EVERYTIME I ride my street sport bike I take about 4-5 miles to put some heat into the tires and then manuver onto a very lightly traveled country road with long sightlines and then start braking with two fingers. I start hard braking at 35-40, then at 45, then 50 up until about 75 MPH (always checking my mirrors before each step). It seems to make my track braking easier as well as my street riding as my track bike and street bikes are set up identically; but back to the point. This exercise seems to be some of the best riding advice I was ever able to take away from a how to be a safer street rider book. YRMV.

 

Rain