When In Lean I Am Putting My Weight On The Inside Peg !

[roalme00]

Hey guys,

 

so when I am in a corner in a lean I find it very comfortable to do the hook turn to tighten the line but everytime I do this I find it helps to put a lot of weight onto the inside footpeg ! It feels like I am almost squating down on the inside peg. (feels)

My calves touch the back of my thigh when I do it.

Am I totally wrong in doing this ? Should the weight rather be on the outside peg ?

 

This question has been harassing me sinc e awhile now. Help a fellow CSS student out

[Kevin Kane]

Hey guys,

 

so when I am in a corner in a lean I find it very comfortable to do the hook turn to tighten the line but everytime I do this I find it helps to put a lot of weight onto the inside footpeg ! It feels like I am almost squating down on the inside peg. (feels)

My calves touch the back of my thigh when I do it.

Am I totally wrong in doing this ? Should the weight rather be on the outside peg ?

 

This question has been harassing me sinc e awhile now. Help a fellow CSS student out

 

TenHut (were you a QB?);

I retook all the levels last season and the biggest tool I took away from repeating L's I-III was how badly my body position had digressed on the bike. I used to use the inside peg (to save energy) but now when I catch myself doing it I try even harder to keep my weight loaded outside. It makes the Hook Turn more effective IMHO but it also does demand more from me physically.

 

As a result of that demand, I use a machine at the gym where I am sitting in a device and push a weight stack out from center with my knees on some pads and then after numerous reps I reverse the pads and then squeeze my knees together (moving the weight stack). It uses all of your core muscles and helps me with the muscle group we use for hanging off from the outside. YRMV.

 

Rain

[fossilfuel]

Hey guys,

 

so when I am in a corner in a lean I find it very comfortable to do the hook turn to tighten the line but everytime I do this I find it helps to put a lot of weight onto the inside footpeg ! It feels like I am almost squating down on the inside peg. (feels)

My calves touch the back of my thigh when I do it.

Am I totally wrong in doing this ? Should the weight rather be on the outside peg ?

 

This question has been harassing me sinc e awhile now. Help a fellow CSS student out

 

TenHut (were you a QB?);

I retook all the levels last season and the biggest tool I took away from repeating L's I-III was how badly my body position had digressed on the bike. I used to use the inside peg (to save energy) but now when I catch myself doing it I try even harder to keep my weight loaded outside. It makes the Hook Turn more effective IMHO but it also does demand more from me physically.

 

As a result of that demand, I use a machine at the gym where I am sitting in a device and push a weight stack out from center with my knees on some pads and then after numerous reps I reverse the pads and then squeeze my knees together (moving the weight stack). It uses all of your core muscles and helps me with the muscle group we use for hanging off from the outside. YRMV.

 

Rain

Lucy! You got some splaining to do!

[roalme00]

Thanks Kane.

 

I am not sure I understood what you said though.

 

If putting pressure on the right footpeg when in lean in a left turn is benefecial how the F do I effect any pressure on the outside peg ? Everytime I try doing that I feel I am gonna fall off the bike. I feel like such a noob (and am one)

 

I have taken all four levels but either wasnt paying attention or am just plain stupid.

 

I posted a few of my lean pics on one of the R1 forums out there and they said I should try going lighter on the inside peg. Ever since then (about 4 months) I have been trying to do that but all in vain.

 

I want to take CSS levels again so bad its not even funny. I even got the money ready for it. A bunch of 5 riders and I are awaiting the return of Gary, Jet, Adam and Andy to my country. I cant forget the lessons I had with Andy Ibbott. But untill these guys fly to my country again I am gonna have to learn by asking questions here

[harnois]

Tenhut, when hanging off on the left side, I am supporting my weight and gripping onto the bike in three ways:

 

1. There IS a lot of weight on the left/inside peg, I don't see how or why that would be a problem.

2. By locking my right/outside knee into the lip of the gas tank.

3. Sometimes hooking my right/outside elbow against the gas tank.

 

Using the stomp grip pads or other similar devices to grip the gas tank with your legs is really helpful. In my opinion it doesn't really matter how you hold onto the bike as long as you are not using the handlebars. The loose grip on the bars is the important thing to remember, and not supporting any of your weight against the bars. All that business about weighting pegs is a waste of your attention. If your body is hanging off the left of the bike, that is where your weight is and nothing is going to change that, and that is of course the whole point of hanging off. Put the bike on a repair stand to test, get on the bike, move hips and shoulders out off the bike into the hang off position, then you should be able to let go of the handlebars and hold the position.

[Kevin Kane]

Thanks Kane.

 

I am not sure I understood what you said though.

 

If putting pressure on the right footpeg when in lean in a left turn is benefecial how the F do I effect any pressure on the outside peg ? Everytime I try doing that I feel I am gonna fall off the bike. I feel like such a noob (and am one)

 

I have taken all four levels but either wasnt paying attention or am just plain stupid.

 

I posted a few of my lean pics on one of the R1 forums out there and they said I should try going lighter on the inside peg. Ever since then (about 4 months) I have been trying to do that but all in vain.

 

I want to take CSS levels again so bad its not even funny. I even got the money ready for it. A bunch of 5 riders and I are awaiting the return of Gary, Jet, Adam and Andy to my country. I cant forget the lessons I had with Andy Ibbott. But untill these guys fly to my country again I am gonna have to learn by asking questions here

 

 

TH;

If you took all four levels then you need to dig deep to recall what you learned in level III. There you learned how to lock in your OUTSIDE knee against the tank and then you drop your torso down to the inside of the turn with your inside elbow pointed as straight down as you could point it. To do that the majority of your weight is on your outside leg as that's where you have your leverage to manuver your torso because that portion of your body stays static until you have picked up the pike on your drive out (or your transition to turning the other way).

 

As you described in your first post, you place a good deal of your weight on the inside such that your inside calf touches your inside thigh as you "squatted" on the inside peg. I have seen that technique used many times but I don't know how you unload that inside peg when it transitions to an outside peg without upsetting the stability of the bike. Others here will disagree with me but that's what I took from Level III.

 

Rain

[fossilfuel]

Thanks Kane.

 

I am not sure I understood what you said though.

 

If putting pressure on the right footpeg when in lean in a left turn is benefecial how the F do I effect any pressure on the outside peg ? Everytime I try doing that I feel I am gonna fall off the bike. I feel like such a noob (and am one)

 

I have taken all four levels but either wasnt paying attention or am just plain stupid.

 

I posted a few of my lean pics on one of the R1 forums out there and they said I should try going lighter on the inside peg. Ever since then (about 4 months) I have been trying to do that but all in vain.

 

I want to take CSS levels again so bad its not even funny. I even got the money ready for it. A bunch of 5 riders and I are awaiting the return of Gary, Jet, Adam and Andy to my country. I cant forget the lessons I had with Andy Ibbott. But untill these guys fly to my country again I am gonna have to learn by asking questions here

 

 

TH;

If you took all four levels then you need to dig deep to recall what you learned in level III. There you learned how to lock in your OUTSIDE knee against the tank and then you drop your torso down to the inside of the turn with your inside elbow pointed as straight down as you could point it. To do that the majority of your weight is on your outside leg as that's where you have your leverage to manuver your torso because that portion of your body stays static until you have picked up the pike on your drive out (or your transition to turning the other way).

 

As you described in your first post, you place a good deal of your weight on the inside such that your inside calf touches your inside thigh as you "squatted" on the inside peg. I have seen that technique used many times but I don't know how you unload that inside peg when it transitions to an outside peg without upsetting the stability of the bike. Others here will disagree with me but that's what I took from Level III.

 

Rain

As Kevin so elequently states "Others here will disagree with me". I disagree but I don't use the "locking into the tank with the knee" technique. I don't have to press ouside pegs to force my knee into the tank. I have skinny legs and boney knees. I use the "Hug the tank" technique. I use my thighs to hold me against the tank and weight the inside peg in the corners. This technique suits me just fine. I have tried both techniques and I get around the track much faster tank hugging.

[636rider]

Thanks Kane.

 

I am not sure I understood what you said though.

 

If putting pressure on the right footpeg when in lean in a left turn is benefecial how the F do I effect any pressure on the outside peg ? Everytime I try doing that I feel I am gonna fall off the bike. I feel like such a noob (and am one)

 

I have taken all four levels but either wasnt paying attention or am just plain stupid.

 

I posted a few of my lean pics on one of the R1 forums out there and they said I should try going lighter on the inside peg. Ever since then (about 4 months) I have been trying to do that but all in vain.

 

I want to take CSS levels again so bad its not even funny. I even got the money ready for it. A bunch of 5 riders and I are awaiting the return of Gary, Jet, Adam and Andy to my country. I cant forget the lessons I had with Andy Ibbott. But untill these guys fly to my country again I am gonna have to learn by asking questions here

 

 

TH;

If you took all four levels then you need to dig deep to recall what you learned in level III. There you learned how to lock in your OUTSIDE knee against the tank and then you drop your torso down to the inside of the turn with your inside elbow pointed as straight down as you could point it. To do that the majority of your weight is on your outside leg as that's where you have your leverage to manuver your torso because that portion of your body stays static until you have picked up the pike on your drive out (or your transition to turning the other way).

 

As you described in your first post, you place a good deal of your weight on the inside such that your inside calf touches your inside thigh as you "squatted" on the inside peg. I have seen that technique used many times but I don't know how you unload that inside peg when it transitions to an outside peg without upsetting the stability of the bike. Others here will disagree with me but that's what I took from Level III.

 

Rain

Agree with Kevin 100% that most the "weight" is on outside peg. The fact of putting the weight on outside peg is not for adding weight on the bike through the outside peg, but as the means to apply outside knee force on the tank to anchor the bike with the help of the outside peg. This allows a relax grip at handle bar and efficient counter-steering with inner arm. Imagine pushing the handle bar with inner arm while pushing the outside foot only (with no "weight" on inner peg), which is very effective for steering input.

[roalme00]

TH;

If you took all four levels then you need to dig deep to recall what you learned in level III. There you learned how to lock in your OUTSIDE knee against the tank and then you drop your torso down to the inside of the turn with your inside elbow pointed as straight down as you could point it. Yes..I recollect that..the fish hook shape that your inside elbow makes gives it the name "Hook turn". I am not having trouble pushing the outside peg to dig in my outside knee into the tank just at the moment I am about to initiate a hook turn(or any turn for that matter) I remember an excercise that Andy made me do while sitting on a chair. Press the right leg into the floor to push him away from me with my left hand. I could muster more strength to push him away that way as compared to when I would try pushing him with my left hand by diggin my left foot in the ground. (all this while seated in a chair)

I understood this to be how the pivot steering also works. So while initiating a turn I pivot steer..but it is midcorner that I feel like I am squatting on the inside peg. Feels like I am getting ready to jump off a diving board. It is here in mid corner where If I attempt to put any pressure on the right peg(without letting any input go into to the bars) I feel like I am gonna fall off the bike( is it because it makes me lighter on the bike and hence just get a feeling of falling but wont actually fall off ?) I consulted many riders here...some of them even race...but as is the case with sports riding the opinions seem divided.

To do that the majority of your weight is on your outside leg as that's where you have your leverage to manuver your torso because that portion of your body stays static until you have picked up the pike on your drive out (or your transition to turning the other way).

 

As you described in your first post, you place a good deal of your weight on the inside such that your inside calf touches your inside thigh as you "squatted" on the inside peg. I have seen that technique used many times but I don't know how you unload that inside peg when it transitions to an outside peg without upsetting the stability of the bike. Others here will disagree with me but that's what I took from Level III.

 

Rain

Agree with Kevin 100% that most the "weight" is on outside peg. The fact of putting the weight on outside peg is not for adding weight on the bike though the outside peg, but as the means to apply outside knee force on the tank to anchor the bike with the help of the outside peg. This allows a relax grip at handle bar and efficient counter-steering with inner arm. Imagine pushing the handle bar with inner arm while pushing the outside foot only (with no "weight" on inner peg), which is very effective for steering input.

Pivot steering yeah...but by midcorner I am not expected to do any steering corrections at all...and it is in this phase of the corner that I try weighing the outside peg to prepare for either a chicane or a to pick the bike up...I am not having any issues with being light on the bars (unless when panicking) and I am totally confused whether its even requiered to have some weight on the outside peg when in mid corner. I am aware that I am being repetative but thats because I am constantly struggling with trying to express what my real problem is. I wish I could be more pellucid. TBH why am I bothering ? Someone somehwere told me with excess weight on the inside peg the bike will slide out from underneath you in a corner. I have had a low side which I have not been able to decipher and have begun wondering if this was the cause ? Can this even be the cause ? I am finicky when it comes to buying advices from ppl on the streets.

Lines in Bold and Italics above are my replies.

Thanks a ton guys for taking the effort to explain this as I am at my wits end. Ever since I have this problem riding a superbike good is seeming to be rocket science to me as I just cant get it right lol

[fossilfuel]

TH;

If you took all four levels then you need to dig deep to recall what you learned in level III. There you learned how to lock in your OUTSIDE knee against the tank and then you drop your torso down to the inside of the turn with your inside elbow pointed as straight down as you could point it. Yes..I recollect that..the fish hook shape that your inside elbow makes gives it the name "Hook turn". I am not having trouble pushing the outside peg to dig in my outside knee into the tank just at the moment I am about to initiate a hook turn(or any turn for that matter) I remember an excercise that Andy made me do while sitting on a chair. Press the right leg into the floor to push him away from me with my left hand. I could muster more strength to push him away that way as compared to when I would try pushing him with my left hand by diggin my left foot in the ground. (all this while seated in a chair)

I understood this to be how the pivot steering also works. So while initiating a turn I pivot steer..but it is midcorner that I feel like I am squatting on the inside peg. Feels like I am getting ready to jump off a diving board. It is here in mid corner where If I attempt to put any pressure on the right peg(without letting any input go into to the bars) I feel like I am gonna fall off the bike( is it because it makes me lighter on the bike and hence just get a feeling of falling but wont actually fall off ?) I consulted many riders here...some of them even race...but as is the case with sports riding the opinions seem divided.

To do that the majority of your weight is on your outside leg as that's where you have your leverage to manuver your torso because that portion of your body stays static until you have picked up the pike on your drive out (or your transition to turning the other way).

 

As you described in your first post, you place a good deal of your weight on the inside such that your inside calf touches your inside thigh as you "squatted" on the inside peg. I have seen that technique used many times but I don't know how you unload that inside peg when it transitions to an outside peg without upsetting the stability of the bike. Others here will disagree with me but that's what I took from Level III.

 

Rain

Agree with Kevin 100% that most the "weight" is on outside peg. The fact of putting the weight on outside peg is not for adding weight on the bike though the outside peg, but as the means to apply outside knee force on the tank to anchor the bike with the help of the outside peg. This allows a relax grip at handle bar and efficient counter-steering with inner arm. Imagine pushing the handle bar with inner arm while pushing the outside foot only (with no "weight" on inner peg), which is very effective for steering input.

Pivot steering yeah...but by midcorner I am not expected to do any steering corrections at all...and it is in this phase of the corner that I try weighing the outside peg to prepare for either a chicane or a to pick the bike up...I am not having any issues with being light on the bars (unless when panicking) and I am totally confused whether its even requiered to have some weight on the outside peg when in mid corner. I am aware that I am being repetative but thats because I am constantly struggling with trying to express what my real problem is. I wish I could be more pellucid. TBH why am I bothering ? Someone somehwere told me with excess weight on the inside peg the bike will slide out from underneath you in a corner. I have had a low side which I have not been able to decipher and have begun wondering if this was the cause ? Can this even be the cause ? I am finicky when it comes to buying advices from ppl on the streets.

Lines in Bold and Italics above are my replies.

Thanks a ton guys for taking the effort to explain this as I am at my wits end. Ever since I have this problem riding a superbike good is seeming to be rocket science to me as I just cant get it right lol

not locked in

not locked in

not locked in

not locked innot locked in

I think we need to get these guys some help...LOL

[Bullet]

So, quick couple of observations. (for the original poster and others).

 

Do you find your knees (on the inside of the turn ache)? If you carry all/most of the weight on the inside peg, your knees are way past where they're effective, and if you have ever tried to squat weights, you try to never go past 90degrees. Imagine squatting down on one leg, all that weight down on your leg, then extend yourself back up from that position, is it easy? How much effort does it take? Is that any different than what you're suggesting on the bike?

 

Second point, if you recognise that your not very effective/efficient doing this, imagine the scenario where you need to quickly transition from one corner to the next, how are you going to leverage that weight across the bike? Your legs don't work to well, so what levers will you use instead?

 

If your leaned off so far that you thigh is leaning against your calf muscles, is it possible you have too much of your body of to the inside of the bike? How much of your ass is on the seat?

 

Final point, if more of the weight is on the outside peg (you cannot carry all of it on your outside leg), what benefit might that have with respect to traction and feeling for traction limits? ever ridden an off road bike?

 

Bullet

[Jaybird180]

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the calf raise. I recall Hotfoot talking about it about a year or so, I experienced the benefit recently.

[ozfireblade]

I use this a bit probablty not as much as I should but one thing I do is use it in conjuction with is the pick up drill, for some reason it makes that drill easier for me.

[636rider]

Pivot steering yeah...but by midcorner I am not expected to do any steering corrections at all...and it is in this phase of the corner that I try weighing the outside peg to prepare for either a chicane or a to pick the bike up...I am not having any issues with being light on the bars (unless when panicking) and I am totally confused whether its even requiered to have some weight on the outside peg when in mid corner. I am aware that I am being repetative but thats because I am constantly struggling with trying to express what my real problem is. I wish I could be more pellucid. TBH why am I bothering ? Someone somehwere told me with excess weight on the inside peg the bike will slide out from underneath you in a corner. I have had a low side which I have not been able to decipher and have begun wondering if this was the cause ? Can this even be the cause ? I am finicky when it comes to buying advices from ppl on the streets.

...To prepare for a chicane, remember this drill?--

Check out which part of leg is applying force.

...To pick up the bike, steering will be more effective than weight on peg [sometimes you may not want to move the upper body during pick up, so that the body is ready for the next turn (same hand turn) too ].

Hope it makes sense.

[faffi]

If you carry all/most of the weight on the inside peg, your knees are way past where they're effective, and if you have ever tried to squat weights, you try to never go past 90degrees. Imagine squatting down on one leg, all that weight down on your leg, then extend yourself back up from that position, is it easy? How much effort does it take? Is that any different than what you're suggesting on the bike?

 

Bullet

 

Actually, you would want to squat down as deep as you can go until your upper and lower legs make contact. That's what will give you the most power and also work as much as possible of both front and back sides of your thighs as well as your buttocks. Done correctly, knees are not overly stressed. And if you find yourself someplace without weights, doing full one-leg squats for 15-20 reps per set per leg will give you a fair workout nonetheless. In addtion, it's a great way to practice your balance

 

Whether or not it makes sense to use the inner leg for full support during cornering or not I will leave to others to decide - I do not hang off nor do I use my legs much while riding apart from squeezing the fuel tank under braking.

[RedWarr1oooRR]

I totally understand what the OP is going through. I believe the weight is on the opposite side that the hips are "open" to. This helped me grasp the concept, but I have to remind myself about my inside elbow pointed down instead of out. I lowsided in Feb. of this year and attribute it to my "wide positioned" elbow causing me to "counter-lean" the bike and when I used up all available traction at max lean. *Slide-crash*

 

My tips that help me are simple:

 

-Bum off early

-Open hips to apex (this pops the knee out)

-Bend forward in direction of hips

 

 

[stuman]

Just to offer another point of view.

 

When I hang off MOST of my weight is supported by my INSIDE leg.

 

My inside leg is bent fully so that my calf touches my hamstring.

 

I see nothing wrong with this.

 

I do use my outside leg to lock into the tank as best I can and support as much weight as I can, but still most of my weight ends up on my inside foot. I feel there is only so much you can do with the outside leg.

 

I've ridden several endurance races on a track with mostly right hand turns. Durring and after these races my right foot and calf will be killing me along with the muscles on the inside of my left leg.

[stuman]

 

Do you find your knees (on the inside of the turn ache)? If you carry all/most of the weight on the inside peg, your knees are way past where they're effective, and if you have ever tried to squat weights, you try to never go past 90degrees. Imagine squatting down on one leg, all that weight down on your leg, then extend yourself back up from that position, is it easy? How much effort does it take? Is that any different than what you're suggesting on the bike?

 

Second point, if you recognise that your not very effective/efficient doing this, imagine the scenario where you need to quickly transition from one corner to the next, how are you going to leverage that weight across the bike? Your legs don't work to well, so what levers will you use instead?

 

 

I see where you are going with this Bullet, but I have present a counter point.

 

Yes when I hang off my inside leg is fully bent and my knee does get sore after a long race. But In order to get into a good hang off position on a modern sport bike with rearset pegs I have no choice. I'm 6'2" and have pretty long legs.

 

When I move back and forth on the bike it is difficult to completely unweight my butt from the seat, so I don't. Instead I only flex my quads hard enough to take some of the weight off and use the muscles on the insides of my legs to pull my weight across the bike, the most important aspect of the Hip Flick drill. The big thing for me is that I don't use my quad muscule on my inside leg to push myself across the bike, instead i use the musles on the outside leg to pull myself across. Doing it this way means that I'm not really using my quads much to transition, only to take a little weight off the seat so I can slide across.

[stuman]

Oh, that reminds me, I have a 6 hour race coming up, I need to dust off the Suzann Summers Thighmaster...

[Bullet]

Oh, that reminds me, I have a 6 hour race coming up, I need to dust off the Suzann Summers Thighmaster...

 

 

Heard you use one of these. Crack out the camera next time you're using it, we could all do with a giggle.

 

Bullet

[lwarner]

Oh, that reminds me, I have a 6 hour race coming up, I need to dust off the Suzann Summers Thighmaster...

Why don't we sell those? I want to see Keith do an infomercial!

[Jaybird180]

Oh, that reminds me, I have a 6 hour race coming up, I need to dust off the Suzann Summers Thighmaster...

 

 

Heard you use one of these. Crack out the camera next time you're using it, we could all do with a giggle.

 

Bullet

 

OMG, I wanna poke out my eye! LOL

[Jasonzilla]

I have long legs, and need to give very little effort to "lock in" on my ZX6R. Stompgrip is amazing, and even though the pegs on my EX650 won't allow me to lock in, I can lean my knee against my tank and the stompgrip does the rest.

 

I did practice a bit on the track taking all the pressure off my inside foot while turning, and loved it when compared to weighting the inside foot. I was told a long time ago by a coach to weight the inside down and still consider it a wasted day. I was sore and couldn't walk right for almost a week. After doing laps with no pressure at all on the inside, I felt no difference at all as far as being sore.

 

Picking myself up on the exit seemed more comfortable with the weight on the outside, the pickup drill, getting shaken and not making the bike rattle all seemed more easy to perform with weight on the outside peg. With the weight on the inside, I feel like I'm fighting the bike.

 

And get a fast lean and have your knee drive into the ground with all the weight on the inside. Scared the poop out of me. It was coming out of the carousel on East that I realized weighting the inside was a bad idea.

 

Obviously, though, it's preference. If you're comfortable doing it, do it. If not, don't. Either way, find some way to make whatever you like a habit. Consistency is the key to consistency. Repetitive motion teaches habit. I put a piece of tape on the tank, and have whatever I'm working on written on it. It reminds me what I'm focusing on. BP, a particular drill, or even a turn. Whatever I'm doing is on that tape.