Quick Flick/ Counter Steer

[the watcher]

how much force and how quick can i push the bars to make bike turn without washing the front out...

had 2 offs recently, confidence is gone, starting to rush corners again and braking to late and hard into them too instead of carrying decent corner speed...

also falling into the habit of looking at the back of the bike infront of me.... new too track days, done 6 but seem to be going backwards since my crash... help

[ktk_ace]

Ur doing it SO wrong dude...

 

countersteering/quick flick isnt going to help if you rush corners....

[YellowDuck]

The standard answer is that if you are off the brakes and the suspension is settled, you can not overcome the traction available to the front tire just by steering. Steer it as hard as you can and the front will still not slip. If either end lets go in response to a steering-only input it will be the rear.

 

I have tested this advice myself and can attest that I have yet to be able to steer the bike hard enough to induce any kind of slide at either end.

 

But you need to be off the brakes.

[ktk_ace]

The standard answer is that if you are off the brakes and the suspension is settled, you can not overcome the traction available to the front tire just by steering. Steer it as hard as you can and the front will still not slip. If either end lets go in response to a steering-only input it will be the rear.

 

I have tested this advice myself and can attest that I have yet to be able to steer the bike hard enough to induce any kind of slide at either end.

 

But you need to be off the brakes.

 

not with worn tires/low friction coeffecient surfaces/ cold tires imho.

[Hotfoot]

how much force and how quick can i push the bars to make bike turn without washing the front out...

had 2 offs recently, confidence is gone, starting to rush corners again and braking to late and hard into them too instead of carrying decent corner speed...

also falling into the habit of looking at the back of the bike infront of me.... new too track days, done 6 but seem to be going backwards since my crash... help

 

You can apply a great deal of force to the bar to turn the bike quickly - the quick steer is controlled by how HARD you push on the bar, not how fast. A fast "punch" to the bars can tend to upset the bike and give you a less accurate steering result.

 

As said above, you are very unlikely to lose traction just from quick-turning the bike - UNLESS you are ALSO on the brakes, or you have poor traction such as cold or worn-out tires, or a slick surface.

 

When you are approaching a turn, have you chosen a turn point (where you want to initiate the turn) and an apex point (where you want to turn TO)?

[bradvanhorn]

Wow, responses have come in quickly... From what little you've mentioned, it sounds more like visual errors (I suspect that's where Hotfoot may be going with her question). If you haven't read Twist of the Wrist II or watched the DVD then now is an excellent time. If you have, then perhaps this is a good time to re-read or again watch the video. When you get back on the bike, I think you can best start by lowering your speeds to where you are very comfortable and not worry about carrying a certain amount of speed. It may feel slow but it'll allow you to put most of your attention on technique.

[ktk_ace]

Wow, responses have come in quickly... From what little you've mentioned, it sounds more like visual errors (I suspect that's where Hotfoot may be going with her question). If you haven't read Twist of the Wrist II or watched the DVD then now is an excellent time. If you have, then perhaps this is a good time to re-read or again watch the video. When you get back on the bike, I think you can best start by lowering your speeds to where you are very comfortable and not worry about carrying a certain amount of speed. It may feel slow but it'll allow you to put most of your attention on technique.

 

i second re-reading/ viewing the book/dvd.

[csmith12]

I just recently had a high speed off myself, so I feel ya.

 

I would agree that the twist books/dvd are the place to start to get you back in the right mindset. Then make sure your not riding above 80% of your ability at your next track day so you can focus on relearning vs. just scaring yourself over and over. If your like me, visual queues are a direct hard line to the brain and trigger SR the quickest. So I focused on them first. The rest seems to follow in good time as everything mentally "slows" back down. Don't rush it or "try" to hard and BREATH..... Get a good set of earplugs too.

 

Also, just like looking through the corner for your RP's, look through the rider ahead of you. Don't let their riding leak into yours.

 

Next is... "dull the senses" to calm down SR's. How do you do this?

[csmith12]

Better yet, take a level 1 class!

[ktk_ace]

I just recently had a high speed off myself, so I feel ya.

 

I would agree that the twist books/dvd are the place to start to get you back in the right mindset. Then make sure your not riding above 80% of your ability at your next track day so you can focus on relearning vs. just scaring yourself over and over. If your like me, visual queues are a direct hard line to the brain and trigger SR the quickest. So I focused on them first. The rest seems to follow in good time as everything mentally "slows" back down. Don't rush it or "try" to hard and BREATH..... Get a good set of earplugs too.

 

Also, just like looking throw the corner for your RP's, look through the rider ahead of you. Don't let their riding leak into yours.

 

Next is... "dull the senses" to calm down SR's. How do you do this?

 

Next is... "dull the senses" to calm down SR's. How do you do this?

 

I would say it either takes alot of practice (especially on the nobs bike/drift/brake rig) or .... pardon me for saying this ... inbuilt talent .

 

You are your worst enemy.

 

 

Taking classes ... given that if one can lowside twice in a rce and fix everything up , financially it is really viable.

[the watcher]

cheers for all the replies guys, have a track day coming up on saturday... gonna see how fast i can flick this bike in, im confident it wont wash out now, and banish my lazy steering hopefully... and yes ive watched twist of the wrist 2 several times now, even though the acting is horrendous in it..

also gonna try get a copy of motovudu soon... although thats suppose to contradict a few things in the twist of the wrist dvd....

[Lnewqban]

cheers for all the replies guys, have a track day coming up on saturday... gonna see how fast i can flick this bike in, im confident it wont wash out now, and banish my lazy steering hopefully...

 

Some practice may improve your confidence more than these few posts:

 

"Let's take up question number one first. Can you steer your bike as fast as your car? If your answer is "no", my next questions are: What business do you have riding in traffic with cars that can out-maneuver you?, and, Ain't that dangerous? The answers, not pleasant ones to swallow, are: none and yes. You lose.

............

The truth is: if you can't quick turn your motorcycle, you won't even try. There are no instances on record where a motorcycle rider suddenly acquired the skill and guts to overcome their reluctance to execute a quick turning maneuver if they didn't already possess it: flashes of inspiration in this area appear to be in short supply, especially when most needed.

 

Even the thought of making quick steering changes on a motorcycle is enough to raise goosebumps the size of eggs on most riders and the commonly cited reason for them is the seemingly very real sense that the front or rear or both wheels will wash out. In some cases that could be true, e.g., turning on wet or otherwise slippery surfaces. Riders are keenly aware of this and generally avoid it when possible.

 

Another and very real concern is: an aggressive direction change with the front or rear or both brakes applied, something that often accompanies a panic situation. You can ask the front tire to take a substantial cornering load or a fistful of front brake but you may not ask it to do them both at the same time; them's the rules of rubber. That's one for Physics.

.............

Take a moment to evaluate how quickly you are willing to turn your bike. If there were a scale from 1 to 10, where would you be. After twenty years of intense observation, I place the average motorcycle rider at around 4 on that scale. Is fear of falling a reason? Yes. Not practiced at the art of quick turns? Yes. Very few ever take the time to hone their skill up to the standard of effectiveness needed for the street." - Keith Code

 

http://forums.superb...p?showtopic=109

 

Before you attempt a quick flick, focus on keeping your front tire loaded and the front suspension non-upset, you need steady weight on that patch.

You need all the friction that you can get from your front patch; hence, simultaneous quick-flicking and wheelies (just an extreme visualization) are as bad as simultaneous quick-flicking and hard braking.

 

http://forums.superb...p?showtopic=579

 

"If you think what I am saying is: you have to push through the fear barriers to get to clean riding, you are right; but the push comes after the understanding of where your attention should or should not be focused.

.........There are basic principals to riding. What you ride doesn't change them. Where you ride doesn't change them. How fast you ride doesn't change them. They are what they are: they are not based on my opinions about them, they are based on well defined and easily understood basic principals you will understand.

.........It has taken 30 years of devoted time and attention to separate the important from the unimportant and to figure out ways we can trick ourselves into giving up the resist-error-resist-terror way of doing things in favor of the focus-flow-focus-go mode............." - Keith Code

 

Also, read these articles:

 

http://www.motorcycl..._a_trained_eye/

 

http://www.motorcycl...ics_code_break/

 

http://www.motorcycl...cus_code_break/

[noamkrief]

Counter-steering is NOT how you should turn the bike on the track. Body steering. I know Code doesn't agree here but it's true!

When you come into a left turn, move your butt off to the left, and your upper body as well.

You will not be able to move alot of your upper body to the left while still in a straight line, but try - like 6 inches off the center line.

Obviously - at this point, you are on the brakes coming up to your turn.

 

So let me explain what has happened here.

When you shift your butt and body to the left in a straight line, your bike will be slightly leaned to the right to maintain a straight line.

You basically just spring loaded the bike into potential energy. The bike will want to lean. Let go of the handlebars and the bike will dive in all by itself.

[RogerThat]

Counter-steering is NOT how you should turn the bike on the track. Body steering. I know Code doesn't agree here but it's true!

When you come into a left turn, move your butt off to the left, and your upper body as well.

You will not be able to move alot of your upper body to the left while still in a straight line, but try - like 6 inches off the center line.

Obviously - at this point, you are on the brakes coming up to your turn.

 

So let me explain what has happened here.

When you shift your butt and body to the left in a straight line, your bike will be slightly leaned to the right to maintain a straight line.

You basically just spring loaded the bike into potential energy. The bike will want to lean. Let go of the handlebars and the bike will dive in all by itself.

 

What is REALLY entertaining is watching guys at the superbike school do a steering drill using this technique. You can get a bike to DRIFT slightly by just using body steering, especially at really slow speeds, but try to negotiate an actual corner at anything over 25 mph with your hands off the bars and you'll learn in a hurry what it really takes to steer a bike. You gotta counter steer or you will just go mostly in a straight line.

[bradvanhorn]

Counter-steering is NOT how you should turn the bike on the track. Body steering. I know Code doesn't agree here but it's true!

When you come into a left turn, move your butt off to the left, and your upper body as well.

You will not be able to move alot of your upper body to the left while still in a straight line, but try - like 6 inches off the center line.

Obviously - at this point, you are on the brakes coming up to your turn.

 

So let me explain what has happened here.

When you shift your butt and body to the left in a straight line, your bike will be slightly leaned to the right to maintain a straight line.

You basically just spring loaded the bike into potential energy. The bike will want to lean. Let go of the handlebars and the bike will dive in all by itself.

Wow, I needed a good laugh this morning. Thank you.

[Pepsi Drinker]

^ I thought the same thing while reading that reply...

[Jasonzilla]

Except for the "body steering" comment, there are a bunch of helpful answers on the turning part.

 

Vision is the key for me. I teach it over and over and stress it constantly to newer riders (and sometimes remind older ones). The first thing I'd recommend is to back off the other bikes. You should have started working on not making staring at other bikes "habit" before it became a word you'd use to describe what you're doing, but you don't know what you don't know. If you were to attend the school as CSmith12 recommended, you'd learn that if there is something to improve, you should consciously work on it. With something as dangerous as staring down another bike in a corner, I'd make this priority. Figure out what works for you and lock that in so when you feel you're staring at a bike, or going to even, you can change your view back to where it should be: in the corner.

 

With the variety of riders and lines you'll come across in any given corner, with any level rider, you're at the mercy of the rider in front of you getting that corner right when you're staring at them. If they pick the bike up, go wide, or wreck, you're likely going to duplicate their actions. No bueno. And if you stay up when they go down, you'll likely hit them as you'll STILL be staring at them.

 

I don't know how far ahead of entering the corner you are when you start to look at your apex, but it needs to be way in advance of the actual entry (aka the two-step). I'd bet it's sooner than you are now. That could help you significantly, along with the backing off I've previously recommended. One of my favorite feelings on-track is being close to another rider in a corner WHILE WATCHING HIM OUT OF MY PERIPHERY. It reminds me of how much control I have over the bike.

 

Another thing I teach people is that if anything questionable happens (you think you're going in too hot, you're leaning farther than you're comfortable leaning, a rider crashes in front of you, etc, etc), anything that's going to start your SR's to make you look anywhere other than where you're going, CRANK YOUR HEAD INTO THE CORNER!!! Really exaggerate your head turning if you start looking up for any reason. That should be the first thing you do when you get the urge to look straight or at another bike. Stretch your neck even. We are still at the mercy of our primal instincts, which is to direct our gaze towards a threat.

 

Think of a cat playing or intently looking at something (a bird or another cat), and how easy it is to startle him. His primal instinct is to stare at and focus on the threat (even if it's play). He's really focused on whatever he's perceived a threat. If you pay attention after you've scared him, you'll probably see him refocusing on the other thing as soon as he's aware you're no threat, or run because he can't focus on two threats at once. Like you. The perfect human example is a traffic accident. It's instinct to look at it. Next time you're driving by an accident on the interstate, make a conscious effort not to look at it. And don't. You'll see it's hard. Just like getting your eyes off the other motorcycle that you've somehow identified as a threat to your safety. You can't break instinct, but you can train a reaction to it into habit. Want to look: crank your head. Like not looking at an accident. You're initially INCLINED to. URGED to, even. Only after you get that urge can you react to it and make yourself not.

 

As I've advanced through the years, this has saved me going off the track, or shortened my offtrack excursions many times. I like to give examples you can see, and in this instance I'll use WSBK riders (it's seen more often than Moto GP). If they go wide, or know they're going to go slightly off track (not when they blatantly overshoot), you'll seen them braking on the pavement as long as possible WITH THEIR HEADS CRANKED IN THE CORNER. At the last second if they're going off, as they're using their periphery to gauge when they're about to exit the track, They'll pop their heads up, straighten the bike up, go off the track and finish their braking before returning to the race.

 

Whatever it is that works for you to stop doig this, you can probably find a way to practice it on the street, in a parking lot, or where ever you feel safe doing it. The more you do something 1. the more it gets locked into habit, and 2. the better you become at it. It'll also spare you some costly sessions breaking your bad habits on the track. Good luck.

[Lnewqban]

As said above, you are very unlikely to lose traction just from quick-turning the bike - UNLESS you are ALSO on the brakes, or you have poor traction such as cold or worn-out tires, or a slick surface.

 

I would add hard acceleration.

Maybe it is not common to do both simultaneously, but that happened to me once when I was taking-off from a traffic light and quick-steered to avoid an obstacle.

Basically, the front tire turned while the bike kept going on a straight line.

 

Counter-steering is NOT how you should turn the bike on the track. Body steering.......

 

Only if your bike is moving slowly and a lazy turn is not an issue:

 

http://www.promocycl...aquage-eng.html

 

Note graph 3 particularly.

[the watcher]

some excellant posts in this thread, thank u for taking the time to write em out...

[noamkrief]

Glad I made some of you laugh regarding my body steering post but please keep an open mind...

The countersteering method is very real and effective but when running at a faster pace, body steering becomes a big part of turning the bike.

 

Fact is that countersteering is not the ONLY way the bike leans or stands back up. An application of the throttle as most of you will know will stand the bike up without applying pressure to the outside bar - I think most of us can agree. So if there is 1 exception there may be others...

 

Ride your bike in a straight line and move your but cheek over to the right and a generous portion of your upper body.

Now - for the bike to keep going forward you may notice 2 things.

1) the bike has to counter balance itself. It will lean slightly to the left

2) you will need pressure to the left bar.

 

So now your body mass is to the right side of the bike, the bike leaning to the left and pressure to the left bar is applied and you keep going straight.

 

According to basic physics, the masses of the bike + rider are at tendency to converge. Meaning - you will feel forces to go towards the bike and the bike towards you.

 

So at this point, and at the track, be it the braking zone, you are off to the right side of the bike, pressing on the left handle bar, and the bike slightly leaned over to the left. At this point you have created potential eneregy towards a right side lean. If you release the pressure on the outside bar, the bike will "attempt" by the laws of physics to come towards YOUR center of mass and will fall towards your body.

This motion of the bike "falling" to the right towards your body mass is loaded with 400 pounds of inertia.

 

Also - if your bike suspension is set aggressively, under braking you will have "rake" meaning the front will be lower than the rear of the bike due to compression of the front forks. This creates an inherently unstable system. In aerodynamics (even according to motogp techs, bikes are more like airplanes than anything else) unstable planes are maneuverable and stable airplanes are not maneuverable. So with the rake, your bike is unstable which causes it to "want" to turn, or have a tendency not to be stable, in other words, fall down easily towards the direction of the turn.

 

What I have explained here is very subtle and probably not noticeable by most riders. Remember, just because you're fast, doesn't mean you really understand what you are doing... I've met plenty of people who were a second or 2 off the track record who had no idea how or what they were doing to achieve those laptimes let alone try to explain anything...

 

Sorry for my taboo "body steering" post. Countersteering does work great, but I find it more useful on the streets, and in transitions between 2 turns at the track where you really have to manhandle the bike from side to side.

 

Again - the no BS bike by Keith Code is nothing short of genius but lets see what that bike does under braking and loading the front end, while applying some pressure on the right peg and moving the body over to the right side. Under constant throttle without loading the front - of course that bike doesn't want to lean over and needs the somewhat "rough" technique of countersteering.

[faffi]

I do not think you will find too many of the CSS instructors agreeing with you. For instance, applying throttle by itself will help the bike retain the lean and trajecotory, but not straighten it. The bike will not turn simply because you reduce rake and trail, although stability will be reduced. However, even if it is reduced to the point of instability, you still need to guide the machine in order for it to act the way you want. Even more so, one can argue. Try to lock the steering on a motorcycle and see how it is to ride. It will be very difficult just to balance it in a straight line and next to impossible to turn. Counter-steering is the most vital aspect of balancing a motorcycle and make it change directions.

[ktk_ace]

Glad I made some of you laugh regarding my body steering post but please keep an open mind...

The countersteering method is very real and effective but when running at a faster pace, body steering becomes a big part of turning the bike.

 

Fact is that countersteering is not the ONLY way the bike leans or stands back up. An application of the throttle as most of you will know will stand the bike up without applying pressure to the outside bar - I think most of us can agree. So if there is 1 exception there may be others...

 

Ride your bike in a straight line and move your but cheek over to the right and a generous portion of your upper body.

Now - for the bike to keep going forward you may notice 2 things.

1) the bike has to counter balance itself. It will lean slightly to the left

2) you will need pressure to the left bar.

 

So now your body mass is to the right side of the bike, the bike leaning to the left and pressure to the left bar is applied and you keep going straight.

 

According to basic physics, the masses of the bike + rider are at tendency to converge. Meaning - you will feel forces to go towards the bike and the bike towards you.

 

So at this point, and at the track, be it the braking zone, you are off to the right side of the bike, pressing on the left handle bar, and the bike slightly leaned over to the left. At this point you have created potential eneregy towards a right side lean. If you release the pressure on the outside bar, the bike will "attempt" by the laws of physics to come towards YOUR center of mass and will fall towards your body.

This motion of the bike "falling" to the right towards your body mass is loaded with 400 pounds of inertia.

 

Also - if your bike suspension is set aggressively, under braking you will have "rake" meaning the front will be lower than the rear of the bike due to compression of the front forks. This creates an inherently unstable system. In aerodynamics (even according to motogp techs, bikes are more like airplanes than anything else) unstable planes are maneuverable and stable airplanes are not maneuverable. So with the rake, your bike is unstable which causes it to "want" to turn, or have a tendency not to be stable, in other words, fall down easily towards the direction of the turn.

 

What I have explained here is very subtle and probably not noticeable by most riders. Remember, just because you're fast, doesn't mean you really understand what you are doing... I've met plenty of people who were a second or 2 off the track record who had no idea how or what they were doing to achieve those laptimes let alone try to explain anything...

 

Sorry for my taboo "body steering" post. Countersteering does work great, but I find it more useful on the streets, and in transitions between 2 turns at the track where you really have to manhandle the bike from side to side.

 

Again - the no BS bike by Keith Code is nothing short of genius but lets see what that bike does under braking and loading the front end, while applying some pressure on the right peg and moving the body over to the right side. Under constant throttle without loading the front - of course that bike doesn't want to lean over and needs the somewhat "rough" technique of countersteering.

 

race conditions with a supermoto race bike huh?

 

Anything short of race conditions(read: PUBLIC ROADS and naked / non race preped bikes) = countersteering is all you need.

 

I'd put my money on countersteering 99% of the time because body steer only works for the remaining 1% which you have stated.

 

It seems that you have watched motovudu... if you have , the techniques inside only applies to a fully prep-ed race bike prep-ed for a specific style.

 

I've tried that on "lesser " bikes and most of the techniques inside only serves to run the bike wide/ upset the "cheap" suspension .

[noamkrief]

Glad I made some of you laugh regarding my body steering post but please keep an open mind...

The countersteering method is very real and effective but when running at a faster pace, body steering becomes a big part of turning the bike.

 

Fact is that countersteering is not the ONLY way the bike leans or stands back up. An application of the throttle as most of you will know will stand the bike up without applying pressure to the outside bar - I think most of us can agree. So if there is 1 exception there may be others...

 

Ride your bike in a straight line and move your but cheek over to the right and a generous portion of your upper body.

Now - for the bike to keep going forward you may notice 2 things.

1) the bike has to counter balance itself. It will lean slightly to the left

2) you will need pressure to the left bar.

 

So now your body mass is to the right side of the bike, the bike leaning to the left and pressure to the left bar is applied and you keep going straight.

 

According to basic physics, the masses of the bike + rider are at tendency to converge. Meaning - you will feel forces to go towards the bike and the bike towards you.

 

So at this point, and at the track, be it the braking zone, you are off to the right side of the bike, pressing on the left handle bar, and the bike slightly leaned over to the left. At this point you have created potential eneregy towards a right side lean. If you release the pressure on the outside bar, the bike will "attempt" by the laws of physics to come towards YOUR center of mass and will fall towards your body.

This motion of the bike "falling" to the right towards your body mass is loaded with 400 pounds of inertia.

 

Also - if your bike suspension is set aggressively, under braking you will have "rake" meaning the front will be lower than the rear of the bike due to compression of the front forks. This creates an inherently unstable system. In aerodynamics (even according to motogp techs, bikes are more like airplanes than anything else) unstable planes are maneuverable and stable airplanes are not maneuverable. So with the rake, your bike is unstable which causes it to "want" to turn, or have a tendency not to be stable, in other words, fall down easily towards the direction of the turn.

 

What I have explained here is very subtle and probably not noticeable by most riders. Remember, just because you're fast, doesn't mean you really understand what you are doing... I've met plenty of people who were a second or 2 off the track record who had no idea how or what they were doing to achieve those laptimes let alone try to explain anything...

 

Sorry for my taboo "body steering" post. Countersteering does work great, but I find it more useful on the streets, and in transitions between 2 turns at the track where you really have to manhandle the bike from side to side.

 

Again - the no BS bike by Keith Code is nothing short of genius but lets see what that bike does under braking and loading the front end, while applying some pressure on the right peg and moving the body over to the right side. Under constant throttle without loading the front - of course that bike doesn't want to lean over and needs the somewhat "rough" technique of countersteering.

 

race conditions with a supermoto race bike huh?

 

Anything short of race conditions(read: PUBLIC ROADS and naked / non race preped bikes) = countersteering is all you need.

 

I'd put my money on countersteering 99% of the time because body steer only works for the remaining 1% which you have stated.

 

It seems that you have watched motovudu... if you have , the techniques inside only applies to a fully prep-ed race bike prep-ed for a specific style.

 

I've tried that on "lesser " bikes and most of the techniques inside only serves to run the bike wide/ upset the "cheap" suspension .

 

No I have not watches this.

Countersteering is the only way to change the lean of the bike effectively and quickly agreed.

Another way to explain what I already have is this:

 

Take an arrow and put it through a 2x4 with your hands. You can't. You don't have the strength. But you have the same strength to pull a bow and shoot that arrow straight through a 2x4 right?

 

The energy when stored or sprung can behave quite differently...

 

So when you watch twist of the wrist on the BS bike you will notice that when the rider bounces on the right peg, the bike indeed does lean to the right, but very slightly and it's very ineffective. But if you countersteer and press on the left handlebar, the bike will continue to go straight. At this point you sprung loaded the bike, sort of like a bow and arrow. Now, when you ease off the countersteer effort, or shall I say, release - the bike will dive to the right.

 

So if you just shift your weight over, it's like trying to push an arrow through a 2x4. When you store the energy, it's like drawing a bow.

 

The feeling of going into a turn at the track is MUCH different than on the street. On the street countersteering is 100% the way to turn the bike, no question.

On the track, since the turns are memorized, and smoothness is key, we don't usually find situations in which we have to turn the bike abruptly enough to require counter steer. Situations on the track that require countersteer are things like traffic avoidance, and quick flick situation as in a chicane.

 

When I first learned how to track I used countersteering always. So when entering a turn I was STEERING the bike to turn. Now, in the method I described, I'm "LETTING" the bike turn in. That's a good feeling, when the bike is eager to turn for you...

 

I don't think any CSS instructors will agree and that's ok. Motorcycle riding is very interesting topic because there are so many schools of thought. Some say no trail brake, and some say you do... For the record - I'm a big fan of trail braking, but that's not the topic

[Hotfoot]

 

Fact is that countersteering is not the ONLY way the bike leans or stands back up. An application of the throttle as most of you will know will stand the bike up without applying pressure to the outside bar

 

 

What makes you think that applying throttle alone, without any pressure on the bars, will stand the bike up?

[Cobie Fair]

We should have you come and ride the NO B/S bike, don't take our word on this. And rolling on the gas will make the bike run wide, but will it actually steer it (with no bar pressure?). I rode the NO B/S bike in the video (Twist 2). When we were going close to the camera car at about 40-50, I just about bent the upper bars trying to steer it, while rider behind me (another coach, Josh) put one finger on the bar to keep from steering in. Then we did another sequence in a turn at 60-70. Once the bike was leaned in, I could do zip with any body part to effectively steer. Again, don't take my word on this, come and ride it.