Balls of Feet or Instep

[Jaybird180]

When I first started riding it was intuitive to hook the heel of my boot onto the peg, right where my instep was. By my 2nd trackday I began to drag toes.

I heard it repeated many times about standing on the balls of your feet and now needed to change to avoid the abovementioned problem.

There's a video in YouTube of Troy Corser teaching instep and I see the merits of both techniques.

Watching the Aragon WSBK race, I'm now convinced that I've seen enough that the trend is now back to insteps; possibly even hybrid method.

I'm not a "me too" type of guy but it looks like Jonny Rea uses balls on the inside leg and instep on his outside leg; straightaway he's on instep. I see the merits of instep for straights, it requires less energy.

My observation is that balls of feet on inside leg does 2 things: 1- Avoids above problem and 2- more leverage for countersteering. The con is that it's more to think about/do and I'd have another habit change to endure.

What are your experiences with foot placement?

[xaotikos]

I have the exact same question. 

[Hotfoot]

Definitely the main reason to put the balls of your feet on the pegs is to avoid dragging your toes or catching your toe on inside curbing.

It does also make it easier to do a calf raise to drive your knee up into the tank for a secure hold. 

I'm going to speculate here - the racers that have the outside foot arch on the peg may be holding on more with their upper inner thigh which might make the outside foot rotate out a little, making it hard to keep the ball of the foot  on the peg without slipping off. 

[Jaybird180]

Thanks Hotfoot. Substitute  Arch of foot for Instep

[BikeSpeedman]

Personally, I do a bit of both. My inside foot is always on the ball but I'll do the outside foot differently depending on the corner and the speed.

At a high speed, I tend to use the ball and do the calf raise lock more to the outside of the tank.

On slow corners, I tend to use the arch and hold my thigh on the back of the tank rather than knee in the side.

[Hotfoot]

My preference with my outside foot is to put the ball of my foot on the peg and drive my heel up into the heel guard which helps stabilize my lower leg. I have small feet and can't reach the heelguard if I slide my foot down to the arch/instep.

When I began coaching I started to REALLY notice it when a rider would come by me on the freeway with their toes sticking way down past the peg. I know it's probably more comfortable for long rides but it sure does catch my attention.

What about dirt riding? For those of you that do any dirt riding, where do you put your feet?

[Cobie Fair]

Even in dirt riding (the little I do/have done) I end up with my feet on the balls...find it easier to stand and move around.

Same on the street/road bike, find it easier to move, and don't want that inside foot a draggin...for sure at least one coach I can think of has his outside food on the arch.

I also have very short legs, so it helps with anchoring.

[Jaybird180]

Aha! So those that are inseam challenged can possibly favor toes. I have rearsets and they're at the most relaxed position and it's still too much for my long legs. I only put them on to go GP Shift (and they look nice). Arch to pegs gives me a little more room and I think it might be worth going through the pain of change again.

[khp]

I'm inseam challenged the opposite way of Cobie, and I prefer to keep the balls of my feet on the pegs as well. Simply because it requires time, energy and attention for me to move my right foot back and forth. For reason I cannot explain, moving my left foot forward/back to operate the gear lever is not a problem for me

[Jaybird180]

39 minutes ago, khp said:

I'm inseam challenged the opposite way of Cobie, and I prefer to keep the balls of my feet on the pegs as well. Simply because it requires time, energy and attention for me to move my right foot back and forth. For reason I cannot explain, moving my left foot forward/back to operate the gear lever is not a problem for me

Your competence at it means that you spend less of your $10 on it.

[tmckeen]

I'll chime in about the off road bit,  

I find I vary my foot position a lot,  when attacking whoops or attempting some crazy rock infested hill I'm for sure on the balls of my feet,  but extended periods of stand up riding on the balls of you feet will fatigue you calves pretty quick, so I often switch to the arches or even on my heels for a bit to let my calves relax. If I expect to be using a lot of rear brake then I'll have my right foot on the arch and cover the brake with my toe. 

 

Dirt riding encompasses a lot more variety and terrain than a road track so I find you have to change things up a lot more.  I'm sure it also depends a lot on what kind of dirt riding your doing. I have 0 experience at MX tracks but I did enjoy a nice 40 mile loop through the SoCal desert last Sunday, so my experience is skewed towards long off road and trails riding.

 

 

[Cobie Fair]

Interesting to see all this stuff...got me thinking about hands...I'll start another thread on that.

CF

[tomw]

I like to think about what I call the "Athletic Ready Position". Picture any basketball player, football player (soccer or "futbol"), or even the All Blacks doing their pre-game psyche out. If you take a photo right when they are about to spring into action, they are on the balls of their feet. Some sports talk about being caught "flat footed" when you're not in that position and can't make the move (tackle, pick, etc.) I've spent some time playing with my foot position and always go back to balls of the feet (when I do it right!). Interestingly, as a drummer, I switch between using the balls of my feet for the bass drum beater in faster/louder beats, but drop to heel for slower/softer more relaxed beats. I can push hard off the balls and be back ready for the next hit, but it's hard to do that softly. Perhaps some pros have enough attention credit to switch up the feet depending on the situation, I certainly don't!

[lebedo]

I think that foot position depends on what you want to do. If you are on the balls it's for motion. You can push and your leg acts as a spring. If you just want to support your weight the arch is better as the leg can't move. The heel can also helps. For pushing I prefer to use the ball of the big toe as it's stronger. It also flatten the foot and push the knee into the tank. Japanese motorcycle instructors generally speak of using the arch with toes facing forwards. 

[Cobie Fair]

Hmmm...good point on the foot position.  I think if you look at most of the MotoGP guys, you'll see the outside foot wedged on the heel.  But moving from side to side?  And how about the inside foot?  That needs to be back up and out of the way.

Any of you internet geniuses (to me that's almost anyone) find some good slow-mo of a MotoGP rider moving in a transition, from side to side?  That would be good to see.

[lebedo]

So just a quick test I made standing on my feet. If I push my body to the right using the left big toe, my right ankle bends till the right foot is on his side. 

If I use the toe 's balls to push rearwards, upper body lowers to the front. If I push forwards upper body stands up.

[Cianciotta]

I use the heel hook technique - makes it easier to use the rear brake and shift without having to move my torso off the tank and makes me feel more planted on the bike.

However, you need to move your inside foot to the ball prior to turn-in.

[Jaybird180]

Works great in a sweeper. I had to experiment with this when I was racing MiniMoto. Just about the whole circuit feels like a set of switchbacks, and I didn’t have enough bike contact to make it work, so I had to build up my calves to make a whole race. I think I slept about 2 days after a 200 lap team endurance race.

[Keith Code]

I can appreciate the idea of watching top riders ride and figuring out what to do for your own riding.

The only problem with that, I've found, is I still cannot ride like Marc Marquez or my all time hero, Valentino Rossi.

But, when it comes to foot position there are some basics with the human body and physics that to apply.

This may be contrary to or agree with some, either way, they are basic.

When we move from side to side or forward and backwards, the ball of the foot is always our first point of contact unless you are doing it

VERY SLOWLY. Flat footed moves require anyone to put their whole foot down and then transfer most of their weight onto it and the

entire body is swaying side to side. Try it and see what I mean.

Moving off the ball of the foot, we stay in balance and distribute our weight more evenly and we do NOT have to swing our body mass

over and we do NOT have to change our balance point for the entire body.

Does that mean the arch and heel methods are wrong, NO, it does not but it does point out which is the most efficient, strongest, most

in balance way of moving our entire body. OK, what does that have to do with riding, pretty much the same forces apply to it because

we are also lightening up our torsos, off the seat or lighter in it, in order to move relatively quickly as we must do in any series corners,

like esses.

Using the ball of the foot also gives anyone the most powerful lift position using the calf muscle. So what?

Well, if you are using the method of locking your outside leg into the tank by wedging your inner thigh into it

with an up press at a slight angle to engage it, which anyone can do, you have the most powerful engagement

possible with a body. That's an advantage. Rather than trying to squeeze the tank, scissors style, where you do

not have nearly as much power, your legs will get very tired, very quickly. Not to say we don't use that, we do, just

enough to get engagement on the tank and YES grip material, as there is on many Moto GP bikes these days, helps.

They often use some clear or slightly milky grippy plastic stuff.

But what's the point in locking onto the bike to begin with?

Using whatever method, locking onto the tank as your stable point on the bike has other advantages which become more

difficult using the arch or any other part of the foot which lessens the "calf power" from the ball, being your base.

Additionally, locking onto the tank is in line with the center of mass of the bike and the rider. That's an advantage because

it is the part of the bike that moves the least, no matter what the bike is doing, as opposed to, for example, using the bars as a

stable support point for your body mass. That alone is a huge benefit, you aren't being thrown around by the bike's movements.

In addition to that, having your leg locked onto/into the tank in that fashion is the most stable position for your body's mass

because the leg is connected to the pelvis and your body's center of mass is located in the cradle of your pelvis.

So, your balance is maximized, your are the most agile, most powerful and the most relaxed you can possibly be while

still maintaining your position and stability on the bike. Any sport or fighting discipline has that as the most basic goal

for mobility, strength, balance, control, movement capability. And, aside from all of that, you can be the most relaxed

when your core center of mass is stable.

Resting your legs when you aren't using them, like the straightaways, is fine.

That you have to move your feet is part of the game of cornering, no doubt about that. No doubt about it keeping the

feet off the ground dragging holes in your pricey boots. No doubt that you aren't having to stabilize yourself by some

other less efficient method.

Having said all of that, which is inarguable, you might point out that Mick Dohan, musti time world champion, didn't have

the body position that nearly every other rider has, these days.

Also, you might also consider that GP bikes are, usually, more adjustable than your average street based bike and

can be adjusted for different riders.

Back a few years, one of my students had the opportunity to  ride Danny Pedrosa's Honda Moto GP bike which is set up for a rider who is I believe 5'1"

and my rider is 6'. He said it was nearly unrideable for him.

All things considered, the base line for body position that is my definition is:

Harmony with the motorcycle, freedom of movement on it and precision control over it, with the minimum necessary effort.

Comments welcome.

Keith

 

 

 

 

[CoffeeFirst]

I find engaging the calf muscles to move my body position around on the bike and optimizing my leg lock-on is central to the "harmony, freedom and control" goals.  I can't really do it with the arch of my foot on the pegs - only with the balls of my feet on the pegs as my point of leverage to raise my heels. 

[Cobie Fair]

Me too.  What I don't quite get is looks like most of the MotoGP riders, have their outside foot locked into the middle, at the heel.

[Jaybird180]

Let’s also remember that Mr VR ran a disinformation campaign for several years. Many considered: if VR said/did it, it must be good.

[CoffeeFirst]

Quote

16 hours ago, Cobie Fair said:

What I don't quite get is looks like most of the MotoGP riders, have their outside foot locked into the middle, at the heel.

 

After watching various MotoGP & Moto2 sessions in Portimao this morning I agree with your observation. Almost every single rider has their outside foot positioned with the arch of their foot on the peg when in a corner - and better than 50% with the heel of their boot right up against the peg.

The only thing I can hypothesize is they hang so far off the inside of the bike, which results in the contact of their inner thigh (on the outside leg) being so far around the back of the gas tank, that having the heel of their boot hooked on the peg somehow helps them hang on. Many of the riders are so far inside that the angle of their upper leg (so knee to hip) is almost fully perpendicular to the longitudinal line of the bike.

I couldn't find any articles on why they do it. Would be cool to hear a professional rider explain it. 

[CoffeeFirst]

I guess an alternative theory could be the geometry of the foot pegs, seat and lock-on points of the gas tank are designed to precisely match the dimensions of the rider's leg when they are in their optimal hang-off position and lock-on is initiated with the arch of the foot on the pegs and extends to their preferred leg position on the tank. In theory this could eliminate the need to be constantly executing calf-raises throughout a race to achieve leg lock, and might also reduce some movement on the bike and save the rider some energy. 

[Cobie Fair]

I think you are onto something here.  I do recall when we spent more time at the WSB races, there was quite a bit of customization of the bike for the rider, and they certainly have more leeway with the MotoGP bikes as full prototypes.

Glad you didn't spoil anything about the GP, I'm having problems with my subscription, was going to sit down and watch them today...but not yet!