Bullet

Hi Vaidas, It was really nice to meet you guys last weekend. Your levels of enthusiasm and your passion for biking was almost unsurapssed in our experience. I think it was fair to say a great weekend was had by all, both by students, and by us the coaches that came and shared our school and learnings with you. The circuit was a little eye opening, I don't think myself, Johnny or Gary had ever experienced a circuit as bumpy in our lives, but we all agreed though it was a tremendous challenge, the cicuit was very enjoyable to ride, and somewhere we'd like to ride again with luck next year. Now you're part of the family, please feel free to ask questions, share your thoughts and learnings, and we'll see if we can't keep improving your knowledge and skills for the foreseeable future to come. Stay safe and keep smiling! Bullet

I'm not so sure about you, but approaching a turn at say 150mph plus, when I need to get around it maybe around 70mph, normally requires me to brake.. just a little.. SO, my question to you Hubbard, (as I seem to be answering all the questions here.... LOL), is what is it that determine's what is the right line for a turn anyway...? I think you'll find the answer it TW2, page 18.....! Bullet That's insulting. I answer the questions mostly by what I've seen, tried, and experienced. It just so happens that TOTW is where I've learned a lot, and it's by the toilet (please refer to my comment in the "track addict" post, I wasn't lying), and I just ran 8 miles, so I'm not getting up to get it. Thoroughly insulted. Here's what I'm thinking. Your friends are wrong and/or have not had training (again, just my thought), and that's why they're explaining it wrong, or just don't know how to explain it correctly. I have a friend who is FAST, and after reading TOTW 1 and 2, he was blown away. He was told by friends how to do what, and all the stuff that he did to make him better was in the books. It could very well be, and I'd bet on it, that they have no idea why they're going so fast, and what they're actually doing. If they're telling you that they load up the front through a turn WHILE BRAKING, they're one of two things: Wrong or lucky. Take some time on the next trackday and listen to them in a corner. Watch their front. Watch the gas/brake thing that pops up in MotoGP every once in a while. Every tire has its limit, and if they were at full lean and braking going into the corner at the "fast guy" pace, they'd surpass that limit more often than not. More than a couple of us here have lowsided, and I've ridden a full day on a track not being able to find the right line and speed (I was going too fast) through a corner, and let me tell you; I got off the bike after every session and looked at my tire and shaking my head because it was CHEWED, and I don't know to this day how I didn't go down. You can be coming off the brakes while going into the corner (slowly), but the back tire steers the bike through a corner, the larger contact patch is in the back, and they'll be getting pushed into the bars making getting proper BP hard and frustrating. None of this would make a person faster. Remembering the 40/60 rule is what will make you better into and through the corner. It's safer and the correct thing to do. Could the reason you've wrecked be because you're listening to your friends, or were you trying to follow 40/60? While applying the 40/60 rule, I don't even think it would be possible to lowside. And I'm still offended. Wow, that bit of banter seems to have gone awry somewhere....! Desperately sorry if you're offended my friend, I really I am, but we're clearly at some level of cross purposes here for certain. OK, how to put this back on the straight and narrow....? Well, what I was trying to get you to understand is that the correct line is not actually defined by brakes, entry speed, or 60/40, it's actually definied entirely by throttle control. 60/40 is a consqequence of good throttle control and there are other benefits for sure. The reality of riding a bike is that we do not come immediately back to throttle in the early part of the turn, the first part of a turn is typically dictated by a person's ability to able to turn the bike as well as other factors, and regardless of whether you trail brake or not, you're still not in 60/40, so a low side is still possible whether your on the brakes or not, certainly in the wet its very real. So whilst many people would and should come of the brakes/gas in a straight line before you turn, there is an opportunity to brake past this point whilst turning the bike, and of a consequence you can definitely carry more speed upto the point where you can get back to the correct throttle control. Do i reccomend it to my students whilst I'm coaching at CSS? No, Would I suggest it's a good thing for most riders wanting to improve? Definitely not? But the fact of that matter is that if you race, and push hard and want to win, it's a neccesity as their is 1/10's of seconds (many meters to be made). Sure it's a fine balance, though it's normally not the loading of the tyre where the issues happen, it's when the pressure of the brakes are released and suspension extends again that normally the problems arise. One of the benefits you get of being a coach with CSS is not only the fact that you have access to some of the most wonderful information in the world, but probably most importantly, you're part of an incredible bunch of people that have all levels of ability, from top level racing, through club racing, and some don't even race at all. Whats great though, is that we often debate and talk about technolgy, techniques, how to improve etc, all the time, and we experiement and looks for improvements in tech and drills all the time. This drives back into the programme and makes it evolve to what it is today. I've no doubt it will make it evolve further in the future as well. Once again man, sorry if I offended, part of my role here is to make students think about their riding, rather than just telling people, that can be questions, sending you to read tech, etc, etc. It stimulates thought and debate which is great, it creates open thought which we definitely want, but it's certainly not to upset or offend, and if I did, please accept my apology. Bullet

Harsh.. how will you sleep at night? Shallow victory that will be! Bullet

Yeah like thats gonna happen.. LOL (He says hopefully). Bullet

Wow, you guys got it really, really bad. I too used to go out and look at my bikes all the time, and I still do on occasion.. I also have this same problem with road racing (push bikes), as I'm quite into them too. I can't say as I live ONLY for bikes, but I do love them very much, the people around the scene, and some of the fun and opportunities they've presented to me in my life! Motorbikes rule, well, after women, they really rule, and we all know it.. LOL Bullet

I would doubt that would be a problem. You might want to check with the office in advance, but those kind of things can very easily be accomodated usually. Bullet

Hi Charles, Welcome to our forum, you're most welcome. You'll find lots of great people on here, students, non students, people all interested in learning about bikes, and how to get the round corners! I'm unsure on who is from where in US, as I'm UK based, but I'm sure you'll find plenty of people who reside in your part of the world. Have a scoot about, see what you can learn, and of course, post your own learnings, questions, see if we can help you out, and maybe we'll convince you that a school could work wonders to your skills too! Take it easy mate, Bullet

Who you kidding, she'll kick yer arse man! Bullet

Most definitely, think about where that weight is going, straight through the bars and onto that front wheel. We all know too much, and voila, you're gone. I saw a student do exactly this mid turn a while back not really going to fast, but he decided to do this mid turn, i.e. Hang off in the middle of the turn, and he did exactly this, more weight, inside bar, no throttle... result...? Crash! He wasn't even going that fast either! So, so easy to do. Bullet

Probably most important question is this. How stable have you been able to keep the mower? At what point are you coming back to the throttle exactly...? I hope your getting your value for money out of race gas, and of course budgeting for when you blow the heads of the thing with the extra octane rating. Smells great though eh? I think this is the first example where a drink/drugs/porn habit may be of greater value to the wife than this hobby? I'm afraid I have no idea what you're talking about, though personally I found the solution to the problem was just get your wife involved, it just stops the incessant nagging and the furrowed brow looks all the time! You know the ones, you sad little man, get over yourself and just paint the fence instead kinda look! Let us know how it goes, though no theray is ever going to help that mate, I assure you! Bullet

Brilliant result there Hotfoot you must be so, so pleased. We're really proud of you! A new hobby begins..! Hope your ready for the addiction that is! Bullet

Hey Barraman, Ok sorry it took a little time to get back to you, I do apologise for the delay. Now your bike isn't a superbike or supersport, and clearly it's much heavier than one of those which definitely affects things. You would be well advised to consider getting your suspension setup, but of coure it's always a compromise, and if you mainly go two up, with luggage, that will make it very hard and a little flightly I'd expect for work when you're on your own. Still worth some consideration though. Ok, having reviewed your video's, you do need to work on your throttle control timing and application, so I'd suggest you read pages 6 - 30 of TW2. Your body position isn't perfect, (who's is?), and I suggest you look at pages 34 - 40of TW2 to look into that. Finally, you could clearly do with looking into quick turns, page 70-80 and seeing what benefits that could do with respect to you're lines, and ground clearance... Proper throttle control will also assist with this too! Have a look, and see what pieces of information are missing for you still. i think you'll find some good information that will help a lot with some of your challenges. Bullet

Hi Mate, Thanks for those, very interesting, and pics and video just show you so much eh, it's a no escape from the truth medium for sure, the answers lie there within for sure. I have to say, thats one hell of a twisty wiggly/wobbly round isn't it? Is this road you're sturggling with? You've not remarked on whether you've got on of Keith's text, which books if any have you got or read, so I can understand where to point you, good sir. So then my fellow friends on the site, what would everyone comment on Barraman's body position? Anyone see anything they'd advise him to change, or may be causing him so things he could look to ammend? Bullet

I mainly road ride btaking slow in fast out lines. I struggle with getting a good line on left handers, I guess its because for us in Australia vision to the left is tighter when compared to the right, which is more open. The other issue I have is my head,,lol I find that I just cant seem to geyt my head far enough across on a consistent basis. When I run at a nice steady pace its all good, but when I ramp things up[ a bit I find thatpushing my head across to be inline with the rest of my body ( ( inside the bike) seems to change my perspective of the corner and I seem to run wide. I dont know if I am too tight on the bars, I dont thinkl so I am very conscious of this and the need to be light. I wonder if I have too much of a reach for the bars?? I am quite tall and I ride a CBR1100xx but the bars are a bit of a reach,,,,or should I say the bars may be more comfortable a little closer to me... sorry for the random ramblings...lol Hi mate, Yeah we all have some challenges mate, though I've only ever had 1 error at a school. Got a bit of TF, ran into the gravel at big speeds, over 100+. All safe and well though. I looked like that though when I did it. yeah good to see you too my friend. I look forward to seeing you again in September mate! Bullet Hi Barraman, No problem with your points, and thanks for sharing. Couple of questions about you and your riding on the Blackbird (as we call it in the UK). When are you coming back to throttle in the turns? Second question, you hang off the bike I think, how much do you do so, and do you have any pics of you doing so people could have a critique of your position? Thanks mate, Bullet

Hi mate, Yeah we all have some challenges mate, though I've only ever had 1 error at a school. Got a bit of TF, ran into the gravel at big speeds, over 100+. All safe and well though. I looked like that though when I did it. yeah good to see you too my friend. I look forward to seeing you again in September mate! Bullet

Ok Bobby, some questions for you, whilst you're in thinking mode then. What is the pick up drill for? Could you react quickly enough with pick up drill to counteract a slide? If you think about what the rear tyre is already doing when it starts to slide, what would be the consequence of either rolling on more throttle, or alternatively chopping the throttle? Bullet Ok, I believe the pickup drill is for getting a bit more power down at the exit, preferably enough that the rear squirms or spins just a bit as your picking it up! When I think what the rear tyre is doing when it starts to slide, I think coming around, I know that at this point chopping the throttle is not an option as it will result in a highside, I understand that by maintaining a constant throttle will act like a rev limiter and the tyre will regain traction smoothly, then I guess you continue the roll on! Its the last option I wonder about, keep rolling the throttle on (TC rule #1)! Ok so I imagine that the rear tyre will keep coming around and your lean angle will increase until your in a lowside situation, even if it does regain traction before lowsiding then your bike will most likely be pointing towards the gravel at the inside of the turn unless you have used the pickup drill a bit to keep the bike headed in its desired direction, I'm not sure if you could react quickly enough with the pick up drill to counteract a slide, possibly not unless you started the slide intentionally! Bobby You see, you did know after all. Good answer. Bullet

Hey Chris, Welcome to the forum my friend, all are welcome here. Have a scoot around, see whats going, and share your thoughts and experiences. hell, we might even let you ask the odd question, and actually take the time out to try and answer it. You'll find some great people on here, doing much the same, so join and start posting. Bullet

Ok Bobby, some questions for you, whilst you're in thinking mode then. What is the pick up drill for? Could you react quickly enough with pick up drill to counteract a slide? If you think about what the rear tyre is already doing when it starts to slide, what would be the consequence of either rolling on more throttle, or alternatively chopping the throttle? Bullet

I understand it's Mid September, and it's a parallel release in both US and Uk at the sametime as well. You can definitely pre-order it in the UK, and assume it's the same in US. Bullet Hi Bullet Where in the uk can you pre-order the dvd from? I think if you phone the office, and speak with Lynn, you can pre-order it. They were taking pre-orders at the last school we ran a couple of weeks back now, so I would be suprised if you couldn't do the same over the phone. Bullet

I understand it's Mid September, and it's a parallel release in both US and Uk at the sametime as well. You can definitely pre-order it in the UK, and assume it's the same in US. Bullet

You forgot to mention Man's eternal vice.... ! Bullet

You should definitely see some improvements in this area too, as you've discovered, opening yourself to the turn, opens up everything really! Let us know how that goes when you start on track, see if there indeed multiple benefits to this. Bullet

Interesting point there Greg, did you find that when you started to initate them to undertstand what would then happen, now you can almost predict when they'll happen? Bullet p.s. your post on the last page, with the picture was awsome by the way!

1st at the end of the session; guess I was getting tired and same time speeding up 'cause session was OK, going well otherwise 2nd just in the beginning; guess I was too confident and the "rhytm" of the track wasn't clear for me during the first laps (even it was a track I know well) You think it might be possible that you were leaning on the bars a lot, and maybe that may have contributed to your overwhelming the front tyre at all? Bullet

Hi! Thx for comments! I really like this board, this seems to be "alive" and relevant discussion going on... The reason for slicks on my 600cc is they are cheaper than DOT-tyres at our market. Since I'm not racing the "official" Superstock -class, I'm allowed to use slicks as well. This is pure economic background for my hobby... I have a tie wrap around fork and it shows there is 15-20 mm left of travel lenght, depending on track and other circumstances, pace I drive, other traffic on circuit and so on... Regarding the weight balance on my arms, I try to load the clip-ons so little as possible, according to TOTW-lessons. Normally I manage pretty well with this, I crab the tank with my legs during hard braking and I try to take most of the upper body weight with stomach- and backmuscles. As mentioned, "normally" this works quite fine but when I'm getting tired I loose the control slightly and in the end of the session I have more load on arms, I've noticed. So the answer you my friend is: A bit in the beginning of session but a fair bit, sometimes even a lot at the end of the session. You're welcome. When you've crashed, was it at the begining, middle, or at the end of a session? Bullet