stuman Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 What is the limit? Riders always talk about riding at the limit or finding the bike's limit. What limits how fast you go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spthomas Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 What is the limit? Riders always talk about riding at the limit or finding the bike's limit. What limits how fast you go? I don't know! I wish I knew better. When I think back on going around the track I just slow down to a speed I feel comfortable with when coming up to the corners. I've scrapped pegs on both sides of my bike but never my knee pucks so my body positioning must not be quite right. I plan on doing level 2 this year so my real hope is someone can help work through this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acebobby Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 What is the limit? Riders always talk about riding at the limit or finding the bike's limit. What limits how fast you go? I think that the limit is the point where you are spending your full $10 of attention, you might hear people saying things like I was riding right at the limit and that guy passed me like I was standing still! An example of this would be at the recent GSXR1000 K9 launch a journalist wrote that Sullvan Guintoli was putting down black tyre marks by spinning up the rear on parts of the track where you would not even be on the throttle! 2 riders, same bike, very different limits! I used to wonder what would be the best way to increase your personal limits, before practicing the CSS techniques I thought drive at over 100% pushing your limits to the next level or crash trying (which I did)! I then realised that by breaking your riding down into parts and reducing the attention required to perform each task was the key to increasing my limits safely! every time I ride my bike I pick something from TOTW2 and focus on that one thing at road speeds, I find that by practicing the techniques at the lower road speeds when I pick up the pace I dont need to put the same amount of attention on it! e.g. some people think that TC rule #1 does not matter at road speeds whereas to me not using it is not an option, I have practiced that rule so much that it is just the way I ride now, it would probably take more attention not to do it, if that makes sense! Personal limits Vs the bikes limits is something different though but fortunately for me my bike is way better than I am so I still have a long way to go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teg Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 yes , the limit .. if only was that easy , as covered above your limit or someone elses ! as said above covered in the twist books you struggle initially to do the basics with the brain space you have - then add things as you can do them easier and have brain space left . of course the twist on this is as fast as you learn something new and take another step we all want to go faster still so wnt to add more .... so a pro racers limits will be higher than ours - and i guess his peers will also be at a similair level to his . of course there is the limit of the bike (mechanical problems aside)which i guess if you are sliding at both ends all the way round the lap then your getting near it !!!!! i certainly can,t ......... the other side of this is i never believed i would get the speed i have gained from the school levels and track days learning and wouldn,t have believed you if you had told me so . i,ve also tried the go out and give it a handfull approach .......( no it didn,t work ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 This could go in a few directions: we have the limit of the rider, the limit of the bike, which could also include the limit of the tires. For me, when my technique starts to go south, can't execute a turn or turns soundly, I've exceeded my limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teg Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 This could go in a few directions: we have the limit of the rider, the limit of the bike, which could also include the limit of the tires. For me, when my technique starts to go south, can't execute a turn or turns soundly, I've exceeded my limit. cheers cobie , just throwin my pennys worth in ! i guess what i meant is even on a low spec bike with a limited ability . pro riders with high limits of ability can slide the bikes around and on the limit of cornering ,braking grip assuming on a reasonable and working tyre even with pretty basic components . Example , all the moto gp riders turning up to race honda cb500 twins straight out of the showroom to decide grid positions for that afternoons g.p . Now that i would love to watch ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Yeah, that would be fun, huh? Many of you likely didn't know, but Keith and the school sponsored match races at AMA Nationals. He would get many of the pros that could race (back in the 80's and early 90's it was not as tight as now). Some of the top factory guys (Chandler, Russel) and many of the other top privateers. He'd put them on our bikes, and hold a match rac. Some of the years we even weighed the guys, and added lead weight to the ligher riders. That was some fun racing to watch! Best, Cobie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotfoot Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 What is the limit? Riders always talk about riding at the limit or finding the bike's limit. What limits how fast you go? This seems to change often, for me, as I learn more or making changes in my bike or my riding. Lately I have started scraping a peg now and again, which makes me think I am at my lean angle and/or speed limit for that turn - so I try to hang off more, but hit a different limit on being able to lock on properly, without putting pressure on the bars. Or I adjust my suspension to be stiffer - then hit the limit of what I can manage on a different part of the track with the suspension set that way. I think, now, that one thing that limits me is figuring out how to measure the respective gain or loss as I make changes in the bike or my riding - ie, if I slow down the entry to this corner, do I get a better drive, and does that REALLY produce a better result? I look foward to CodeRACE to break this down and measure specific results with specific changes, but I also would love to hear suggestions in this area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybird180 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 What is the limit? Riders always talk about riding at the limit or finding the bike's limit. What limits how fast you go? This seems to change often, for me, as I learn more or making changes in my bike or my riding. Lately I have started scraping a peg now and again, which makes me think I am at my lean angle and/or speed limit for that turn - so I try to hang off more, but hit a different limit on being able to lock on properly, without putting pressure on the bars. Or I adjust my suspension to be stiffer - then hit the limit of what I can manage on a different part of the track with the suspension set that way. I think, now, that one thing that limits me is figuring out how to measure the respective gain or loss as I make changes in the bike or my riding - ie, if I slow down the entry to this corner, do I get a better drive, and does that REALLY produce a better result? I look foward to CodeRACE to break this down and measure specific results with specific changes, but I also would love to hear suggestions in this area. Perhaps (if you don't already own one) you're at the level where you may consider getting a laptimer. Some of the fancy GPS units allow you to break down the track into sections. This way you have solid numbers as to gains vs losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotfoot Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 What is the limit? Riders always talk about riding at the limit or finding the bike's limit. What limits how fast you go? This seems to change often, for me, as I learn more or making changes in my bike or my riding. Lately I have started scraping a peg now and again, which makes me think I am at my lean angle and/or speed limit for that turn - so I try to hang off more, but hit a different limit on being able to lock on properly, without putting pressure on the bars. Or I adjust my suspension to be stiffer - then hit the limit of what I can manage on a different part of the track with the suspension set that way. I think, now, that one thing that limits me is figuring out how to measure the respective gain or loss as I make changes in the bike or my riding - ie, if I slow down the entry to this corner, do I get a better drive, and does that REALLY produce a better result? I look foward to CodeRACE to break this down and measure specific results with specific changes, but I also would love to hear suggestions in this area. Perhaps (if you don't already own one) you're at the level where you may consider getting a laptimer. Some of the fancy GPS units allow you to break down the track into sections. This way you have solid numbers as to gains vs losses. Actually, I did that recently, haven't used it too much yet but I think it will help a lot, I got the Starlane GPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybird180 Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 http://www.starlane.it/en_Athon_GPS3_chron..._shiftlight.htm Really trick stuff!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubbard_28 Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 When saying I was riding at my limit, I'm saying that I'm pushing at the max control I have of the bike. It doesn't matter whether I scrape the pegs or not, because lean off the bike affects it. For example, when I'm doing 1:08 and some change I know I'm pushing it. Without training, a change in setup that would improve my cornering, or more practice (or luck) I'm not going to be able to get around the track any faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuman Posted March 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 A couple of interesting questions along these same lines... So what is the limit of the bike? How do you know when the bike has reached its limit? what is the limit of the tires? Do you ride to the bike's limit or to you reach your limit first ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 A couple of interesting questions along these same lines... So what is the limit of the bike? How do you know when the bike has reached its limit? what is the limit of the tires? Do you ride to the bike's limit or to you reach your limit first ? Uh, do I have to be honest with my answers? I found the limit of the tires in the rain a few schools ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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