Cobie Fair Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 How do you rank the skills in order of importance---what's at the top and why? Anyone can chime in on this, like to hear what newer and less experienced think as well as the more experienced. Best, Cobie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vio Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 How do you rank the skills in order of importance---what's at the top and why? Anyone can chime in on this, like to hear what newer and less experienced think as well as the more experienced. Best, Cobie To me, it is being able to hang off while being securely 'fastened' to the bike but still being completely comfortable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted June 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 How do you rank the skills in order of importance---what's at the top and why? Anyone can chime in on this, like to hear what newer and less experienced think as well as the more experienced. Best, Cobie To me, it is being able to hang off while being securely 'fastened' to the bike but still being completely comfortable OK, why would this be the #1 skill for you? What do you get from this that so important? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vio Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 How do you rank the skills in order of importance---what's at the top and why? Anyone can chime in on this, like to hear what newer and less experienced think as well as the more experienced. Best, Cobie To me, it is being able to hang off while being securely 'fastened' to the bike but still being completely comfortable OK, why would this be the #1 skill for you? What do you get from this that so important? This is the #1 skill for me because it allows me to focus on the important aspects of a corner (braking marks, correct lines, smooth throttle transition, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurn Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 As for me not to get my knee down as everyone would expect me to say LOL but, smoothness into a corner through it and out of it. If i can slide off the bike for a corner to get my body positioning right without a slight wiggly from the bike right through to where i exit the turn and bring the bike upright again. Then id have to say smooth throttle control with on time gear shifting and then braking is my last factor. I hope ive got what you asking here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted June 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 This is the #1 skill for me because it allows me to focus on the important aspects of a corner (braking marks, correct lines, smooth throttle transition, etc). Firebeast, I get your answers, wouldn't mind a little more specific, but makes sense. Vio--you mention hanging orr, but below you say it allows you to focus on the important aspects of a corner--is one of those things more critical than hanging off? CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotfoot Posted June 26, 2009 Report Share Posted June 26, 2009 How do you rank the skills in order of importance---what's at the top and why? Anyone can chime in on this, like to hear what newer and less experienced think as well as the more experienced. Best, Cobie I think wide view is most important, particularly on the street, where it helps to anticipate traffic, but also on the track. Without a good wide view my sense of speed is distorted and I can't be smooth or calm and I certainly can't go very fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vio Posted June 27, 2009 Report Share Posted June 27, 2009 This is the #1 skill for me because it allows me to focus on the important aspects of a corner (braking marks, correct lines, smooth throttle transition, etc). Firebeast, I get your answers, wouldn't mind a little more specific, but makes sense. Vio--you mention hanging orr, but below you say it allows you to focus on the important aspects of a corner--is one of those things more critical than hanging off? CF Good question. I wouldn't say they are more important than hanging off, but to me if I am not comfortable with my body position when entering, completing and exiting a turn it really throws me off and keeps me from focusing on the other aspects of the turn as i should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeV5 Posted June 27, 2009 Report Share Posted June 27, 2009 Hi, all, never posted here before but top priority for me is setting my corner entry speed. If I come into the corner too slow I tend to get greedy on the exit and if I come into fast it sets off my panic buttons and I go into self preservation mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted June 27, 2009 Report Share Posted June 27, 2009 Hi, all, never posted here before but top priority for me is setting my corner entry speed. If I come into the corner too slow I tend to get greedy on the exit and if I come into fast it sets off my panic buttons and I go into self preservation mode. Hi claude, Thanks for joining us and sharing your thoughts. Everyone is welcome in these threads, and peoples thoughts and opinions are very welcome as it helps others as their are bound to be others in the same place as you. How do you know when you've set corner speed correctly? and what enables you to get it right time and time again? Bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acebobby Posted June 27, 2009 Report Share Posted June 27, 2009 How do you rank the skills in order of importance---what's at the top and why? Anyone can chime in on this, like to hear what newer and less experienced think as well as the more experienced. Best, Cobie I would have to say throttle control here, that is the one thing that can make the difference between being in control or not of your bike! I dont think its a coincidence that this is the very first thing you learn at the CSS on your first day nor that it is covered so intensely at the beginning of TOTW 2! Without good throttle control the rest of the techniques would not be possible, it is the one aspect of cornering that effects everything throughout the turn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepr Posted June 27, 2009 Report Share Posted June 27, 2009 I'd second the comment on good TC, I'm still occasionally correcting bad street habits of poor TC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spthomas Posted June 27, 2009 Report Share Posted June 27, 2009 How do you rank the skills in order of importance---what's at the top and why? Anyone can chime in on this, like to hear what newer and less experienced think as well as the more experienced. Best, Cobie From my perspective as a less experienced rider, I would say: - throttle control, to keep things smooth enough so other bad things don't happen, - knowing what speed you should be going and at what point, - looking in the right place, - body position. One skill I have no handle on is knowing where my traction limits are. Am I at the edge of having the tires slip out from underneath me? Could I be going 30 mph faster? I just don't know. I've done two track days this year so far and was feeling a bit frustrated being at a a plateau but I did get to the point where I could consistently drag my knee at the same spot on the same turn for what that's worth. Only on the left side for some reason. I felt like I had the bike practically on its side but it's hard to tell for sure- the way you feel and the way it looks doesn't always match. The 2nd day there was a photographer so I bought some pictures- I look like I'm practically sitting upright going for Sunday ride. But I didn't crash, which was important- my 2nd day I rode my bike out to the track because I didn't have access to the trailer I had used in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeV5 Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 I would say as a total newbie, it's got to be how quick you can turn your bike. Doesn't that effect everything else, even the Almighty fun Regulator on the right! I'm worried about corner entry speed because I can't turn it in as fast as I need to, NO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrano Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 Top Skill for me would have to be how quickly you can turn the bike. The quicker you can turn the bike The higher you can set your entry speed. The later your entry into the turn can be. The sooner you can get it pointed where you want. The sooner you can get back on the gas and therefore stabilize the bike. The less time you have to have the bike leaned over. and the faster you can go through the turn. Top Priority for me is consistently picking a turn in point for every single upcoming turn. This is the prerequisite from which you can correctly set your entry speed. Once you have correct entry speed set all the rest becomes far easier to follow. If on the other hand you let the turn pick your turn in point (wing it) you're asking for trouble and sooner or later it will find you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 - knowing what speed you should be going and at what point, One skill I have no handle on is knowing where my traction limits are. Am I at the edge of having the tires slip out from underneath me? Steve, Interesting points. Your the second person to say "knowing what speed I should going at what point" and i'm trying to discover how people set this? Claude also noted this earlier, and am trying to gauge what defines this for you? With respect you to your question on traction limits, we can assist you with understanding that, but how about you start another seperate thread and we can try and help you with that a little. Could also let us know which levels you've done too? Bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spthomas Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 With respect you to your question on traction limits, we can assist you with understanding that, but how about you start another seperate thread and we can try and help you with that a little. OK, I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmj120 Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 How do you rank the skills in order of importance---what's at the top and why? Anyone can chime in on this, like to hear what newer and less experienced think as well as the more experienced. Best, Cobie Feeling stable body position Tipping in Maintenance throttle reference points SPEED ... I think the most important is skill is stability. Once you feel stable; body postion, tipping in, looking through turn etc all come much easier. I've only been to level 1, so my list is probably very elementary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acebobby Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 How do you rank the skills in order of importance---what's at the top and why? Anyone can chime in on this, like to hear what newer and less experienced think as well as the more experienced. Best, Cobie Feeling stable body position Tipping in Maintenance throttle reference points SPEED ... I think the most important is skill is stability. Once you feel stable; body postion, tipping in, looking through turn etc all come much easier. I've only been to level 1, so my list is probably very elementary. Hi dmj120 What would you do with the bike to get that feeling of stability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmj120 Posted June 29, 2009 Report Share Posted June 29, 2009 Hi dmj120What would you do with the bike to get that feeling of stability? Looking the outside leg in and 'push and release' countersteer. After I got those down fairly well, my coach, Josh, gave me a pointer or two about my body position - wasn't too bad, just had to open up a bit more. I think it important to point out, all the positioning stuff I read / heard did nothing compaired to getting locked in with the push/release steering. After the steering drill, all the other skills presented in level 1 became almost immediate and natural... take with a grain of salt, in context and all that stuff/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubbard_28 Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 I'd say throttle control would be the most important. Helps balance the bike, set corner speed, get through a corner (40/60), accelerate on the straight. Good throttle control also increases safety. Knowing how to stop/keep from lowsiding, highsiding. Helps with both. Second would be working the clutch. I tried to help a friend of mine who doesn't have a quick shift get it right on the straight. There were two races in one day where if he could shift better on the straights, he would have finished at least one place higher than where he was. He would pull in the clutch and bog the front. He almost looked like he bottomed out the front once or twice. WHILE UPSHIFTING ON A STRAIGHT. It can manage speed for the positive or negative. Not getting it right could screw up an entry, missing gears or shifting too much is also a killer. You can get around the track without braking, but managing braking, adjusting speed, managing your way into corners makes you faster than not using the brakes (obviously). Most can make it through pretty well with just the front brake (and a slipper clutch), but knowing how and when to use the rear brake can also effect entry speed. And managing brakes also goes into play during off track excursions. Proper BP puts everything together, but you can be plenty fast with mediocre BP, as lots of racers at the tracks and on TV have. If anyone would pick three of the 4 listed, and pick BP and leave out anything else, equivalent riders learning the first 3 would be much better off. BP is something that can be continuously worked on while learning other things. I spent my first year focusing on BP while my friends learned how to ride the bike, and while I have better BP than all but one, everyone else is faster than me on most tracks we ride. I'm getting faster as I learn the bike more, and am catching my friends, but it really set me back. I don't know if understanding lines and track design is a skill, but if it was I'd put it above BP. A person can have perfect BP, but if he doesn't apex early on turn 3 on Firebird East, I'm going to eat him up on the short straight going into a sharp turn regardless what bike he has. If understanding of traction control were a skill, I'd put THAT above BP, and probably higher still. If you're wrecking and injured, you're not riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted June 30, 2009 Report Share Posted June 30, 2009 I would say that vision skills are the Alpha and Omega of riding. If the vision skills aren't there, nothing else seems like it is going to come very easily. Also, vision errors can create problems when speed increases that weren't there before. I'm having a hard time thinking of many errors that aren't created by literally looking at the road in a way that works against you. After that, throttle control and quick turning. Then I would say efficiency - getting the nut that connects the seat to the handlebars from telling the bike to do things it doesn't want to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harnois Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 I agree with Thor... visual skills. For a brand new rider on the street, learning to "look where you want to go" and getting past the "target fixation" tendencies is extremely important for staying alive. I've heard about and read about and seen videos of so many cases of riders just running wide in a turn and crashing for no other reason than they target fixated. All they had to do was convince themselves to look through the turn and their crash would never have happened. So many times I've been startled by something (let's say a truck in the oncoming lane around a blind turn) and was tempted to target fixate but instead focused on looking through the turn and it immediately became a complete non-issue. But 10 years ago when I got my first bike I remember a few close calls due to target fixation. When I ride on the track, and I remind myself to look way up ahead around the turns as far as possible, I immediately start going faster, getting on the throttle sooner and more, feeling smoother, using up more of the track, and holding more accurate lines. At my current point in my learning curve on the track, it is easy for me to revert back to looking one step ahead instead of two. Throttle Control is really important for all the reasons others have already stated here, but a rider who is tensed up and staring at his front wheel or the outside of the turn will never convince himself to get on the throttle. And even if he did, if you get on the throttle in the middle of a turn, and you are tensed up and looking at the outside of the turn, all that will happen is you will go faster to the outside of the turn! For an experienced rider on a track trying to go as fast as the track boundaries allow, looking way ahead is what allows you to see how things are lining up for you and how your line is working out, and make adjustments as soon as possible where they are the most effective. Looking way ahead allows us to judge when to get on the throttle and how aggressively to roll it on. If you roll it on too aggressively you might run wide, if your roll it on too easy you might not use as much of the track as you could've and therefore won't go as fast as you could've, but if you are looking up ahead it's easy to judge how much to power on so that you'll come out of the turn in the right place. So for the total novice or fast track rider alike, if we are not looking in the right place, we don't have enough information to accurately apply any rider input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
636rider Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 How do you rank the skills in order of importance---what's at the top and why? Anyone can chime in on this, like to hear what newer and less experienced think as well as the more experienced. Best,http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=1661&st=20# Complete Edit Cobie For cornering, my priority of importance of skills: On track: Know the machine----------------with scuffed in, warm-up tires. Even Rossi will have problem if his machine is not right. Understanding Countersteering---very important, should not allowed to ride if not knowing this. Body position, so not putting weight on handle bar, and hangoff with 1 leg lock---- even rider does not know how to ride, the bike will move fine. Throttle control---------------------will not make you slip (high or low side) and fall. Wide view-------------------------- ready to good fast Quick turn-------------------------- now can go fast Reference point--------------------now can pass others with any line Clutchless upshift/ downshift------now can go faster Brake--------------------------------no need, almost no need In the street: Brake without locking tires---- able to stop before hitting the little civic at the coming blind corner Understanding Countersteering---obvious now Wide view---------------------------knowing the two little civics at your both sides may cut into your lane without giving signal, while prevent hitting the car at front which will --------------------------------------stop with malfunction brake lights. (obvious, no need if always lucky or have avoid box-in to start with) Body position, so not putting weight on handle bar (no hangoff unless you want a ticket)---- even rider does not know how to ride, the bike move well. Throttle control---------------------will not make you slip and fall when hit a patch of oil Reference point--------------------not going to opposite lane Quick turn--------------------------correction for not going to opposite lane. Clutchless upshift/ downshift------ride with ease and lazy with the fingers Know the machine---------------- who cares cool tire or not, we are hurry to work; or the tank is empty, we have AAA card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted July 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Good stuff up here. How quickly I can get the bike turned is pretty critical to me. As the ability to turn the bike came up, turns that were an issue/problem at that speed ceased to be. For street riding too, this is way up there. CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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