appannag Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Hi All, A question to try and make the forum a little more vibrant! How much lean angle is too much and how do you know when you have reached your lean angle limit? Appanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fajita Dave Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Hi All, A question to try and make the forum a little more vibrant! How much lean angle is too much and how do you know when you have reached your lean angle limit? Appanna To much lean angle is right about at the same time you fall . I still haven't had any track time unfortunately but I do have a good friend with lots of track time that I've been leaning from. I enjoy trying to figure out the physics of these things too. From my own understanding the absolute max lean angle can only be achieved while you have the tires evenly loaded (40% load on front, 60% load on rear). The reason for this is the cornering forces are being spread evenly to both tires. If you're on the brakes you are putting more load on the front tire and it will give out way before the "maximum" lean angle. I could be wrong so it would be best to wait for someone else to reply and back me up. There are a lot of details that I can't help you with. Like I said above it depends on how each tire is loaded, body position, how much input on the brakes or throttle. Also different bikes and tires (including tire temps and pressure) will have different "max" lean angles. If you're looking to carry more corner speed and lower lap times there are much more important things though. The right braking points, turn in points, on throttle points, and throttle control is what lowers lap times along with good body position. Now if only I could get to the track and practice all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotfoot Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Hi All, A question to try and make the forum a little more vibrant! How much lean angle is too much and how do you know when you have reached your lean angle limit? Appanna If you ride track days there is often a photographer tehre, so you can see how mmuch you are leaned. I was looking at my photos and saw some bike parts pretty darn close to the pavement, decided I better work on body position and quick turn a little more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubbard_28 Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Hi All, A question to try and make the forum a little more vibrant! How much lean angle is too much and how do you know when you have reached your lean angle limit? Appanna To much lean angle is right about at the same time you fall . HAHA. You've nailed it on the head, Fajita Dave (I want Mexican food every time you're on the site). How comfortable you are leaning off the bike, Apanna, plays a big part. I'm having problems because I can't quick turn the bike or get it into a corner with enough speed, so I can't really get it to go all the way over. It's also the setup. I have stock everything on my bike, so I occasionally scrape the peg, but the bike can do so much more. Other than that, if you have the right tires you can get off the bike and lean until you scrape hard parts. And are you saying this forum is boring, Appanna? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appannag Posted September 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Hi All, A question to try and make the forum a little more vibrant! How much lean angle is too much and how do you know when you have reached your lean angle limit? Appanna To much lean angle is right about at the same time you fall . HAHA. You've nailed it on the head, Fajita Dave (I want Mexican food every time you're on the site). How comfortable you are leaning off the bike, Apanna, plays a big part. I'm having problems because I can't quick turn the bike or get it into a corner with enough speed, so I can't really get it to go all the way over. It's also the setup. I have stock everything on my bike, so I occasionally scrape the peg, but the bike can do so much more. Other than that, if you have the right tires you can get off the bike and lean until you scrape hard parts. And are you saying this forum is boring, Appanna? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appannag Posted September 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 HAHA. You've nailed it on the head, Fajita Dave (I want Mexican food every time you're on the site). How comfortable you are leaning off the bike, Apanna, plays a big part. I'm having problems because I can't quick turn the bike or get it into a corner with enough speed, so I can't really get it to go all the way over. It's also the setup. I have stock everything on my bike, so I occasionally scrape the peg, but the bike can do so much more. Other than that, if you have the right tires you can get off the bike and lean until you scrape hard parts. And are you saying this forum is boring, Appanna? Hi Hubbard_28, Nope I am not saying this forum is boring and this forum is not boring! There was a post earlier mentioning that we need new questions on this forum. My question was to get people out there thinking about when they through they had reached thier lean angle limit and why they thought they had reached their limit. Do you feel like you have got to your limit when you scrape the pegs or your crash bobbin or possibly your exhaust?? I agree with Fajita Daves comment, but when do you think you have reached you maximum lean angle? Appanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubbard_28 Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 Do you feel like you have got to your limit when you scrape the pegs or your crash bobbin or possibly your exhaust?? Appanna It depends on the corner and how I'm doing. Obviously if I'm all the way off the bike and scraping a peg, I've exceeded max lean. I don't get all the way down there very often, so I don't have a set knee position to tell how close I am. And I was joking with the boring comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appannag Posted September 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 It depends on the corner and how I'm doing. Obviously if I'm all the way off the bike and scraping a peg, I've exceeded max lean. I don't get all the way down there very often, so I don't have a set knee position to tell how close I am. And I was joking with the boring comment. So if you got rear sets does that mean that you can increase your lean angle further or your max lean angle can be increased? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fajita Dave Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 I agree with Fajita Daves comment, but when do you think you have reached you maximum lean angle? Appanna Well hubbard I didn't get this name because I like fajitas. I was having dinner at a friends house and I wasn't use to making my own fajitas. So I over packed it and made a complete mess which is what gave me the name . Well sense I still have no track time I never reached that point yet (just found out today that I could have gone to VIR last week ). I would think if I start to feel one of the tires start to slide that would be the max lean angle for that specific situation (braking, accelerating, bumps or raise in the track). I'm sure it will take a few hundred or thousand hours of experience to figure out that kind of feel and timing which is probably what separates the amateurs from the pros. Edit: The max lean angle shouldn't be found by scraping parts either. It should be found by how much load the tires can handle before letting loose. To achieve that you need to have the right body position like hubbard stated earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubbard_28 Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 So if you got rear sets does that mean that you can increase your lean angle further or your max lean angle can be increased? Yes. My pegs are lower than any rearsets would be, but I don't have the money and it's not worth it because I commute most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acebobby Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 There is a mental side to this, I once saw a sketch of 3 riders leaned over, in the first sketch the rider was at 25 degrees but thought he was at 45 degrees, in the second the rider was at 45 degrees but thought he was only at 25 degrees, and in the third the rider was at 45 degrees and thought he was at 45 degrees! obviously rider 3 is able to ride the best, where rider 1 is probably the safest he's not going to get much faster and as for rider 2, well its just a matter of time till he crashes! Do you know exactly where you are regarding lean angle or are you a bit more like sketch 1 or 2? After I did my level 3 this year I remembered about this when I saw a photo of myself not carrying much lean angle through a corner that I thought I was doing quite good, so it looks like I ride a bit like sketch 1, the funny thing is my tyre wear makes it look like I've been leaning quite far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spthomas Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 There is a mental side to this, I once saw a sketch of 3 riders leaned over, in the first sketch the rider was at 25 degrees but thought he was at 45 degrees, in the second the rider was at 45 degrees but thought he was only at 25 degrees, and in the third the rider was at 45 degrees and thought he was at 45 degrees!obviously rider 3 is able to ride the best, where rider 1 is probably the safest he's not going to get much faster and as for rider 2, well its just a matter of time till he crashes! Do you know exactly where you are regarding lean angle or are you a bit more like sketch 1 or 2? After I did my level 3 this year I remembered about this when I saw a photo of myself not carrying much lean angle through a corner that I thought I was doing quite good, so it looks like I ride a bit like sketch 1, the funny thing is my tyre wear makes it look like I've been leaning quite far! Those sketches would be interesting to see! Sometimes there is a photographer at the track days and it's interesting to see what you looked like vs. how you felt. I think I'm getting the two angles more congruent (sounds like geometry class!). There seems to be an explosion of those compact video cameras at track days which I think would be helpful for seeing your real lean angle. My track day buddy bought one but went home early yesterday at a Nesba track day because of rain. I stayed and it eventually cleared up nicely and I got a couple of good sessions in, but alas, no video. I did get some useful comments from one of the control riders though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubbard_28 Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 I'd say leaning the bike in a corner is one of the more difficult non-panic riding barriers to get past. Especially when we start to improve our BP. You're set at a certain level while you're still more upright, and once you drop your head the ground is RIGHT THERE. I'm still working on it, and know I can get over much more, and will work on it when trackdays start back up next weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawdude636 Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 depends on the corner, tires, skill, tire loads, and how comfortable you are. As far as your guys knee sliders are concerned how far down from the top to bottom are they...When I first started draggin only the top 3rd of the sliders was scraping...now its all the way...what about the rest of you??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellevuetlr Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 when your tires are squirming... ex... mid corner you add throttle and your rear slipped or your front wants to tuck... that is the limit. you have body position to give you more clearance at a certain speed... but once youve reached that limit, theres really nothing else you can do but be smooth. no reason to do this on in a trackday.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lwarner Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 There is a great article on here called "the bands of traction" that may be exactly what you're looking for. Let me go hunt for a link... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lwarner Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Okay, "the Bands of Traction" article is HERE and it has a lot of cool info. As far as real world application goes, I hear riders who are more experienced than myself talk about feeling the tire "slipping". I am very eager to reach that skill level, to be able to feel that point of maximum lean angle and thus maximum corner speed... (assuming you have good Body Position). One of the things that I think will help me and that I can't wait to do is use the "Slide Bike" on level 4. I think that between that and just getting a lot of seat time I will get there in the not too distant future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6blade07 Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Appanna: I couldn't agree more with bellevuetlr when your tires are squirming... ex... mid corner you add throttle and your rear slipped or your front wants to tuck... that is the limit. you have body position to give you more clearance at a certain speed... but once youve reached that limit, theres really nothing else you can do but be smooth. no reason to do this on in a trackday.. Nicely put! And it took me 3 occasions to understand this! Like the above example, I gassed it post apex, no throttle control, while still at considerable lean exiting the corners ... yes the back slipped out but far from a controlled slide . I was lucky the first 2 times (htf?), the 3rd is for another thread . I can only say, without proper coaching / tuition, searching for these limits is stacking the odds heavily against you bro staying rubberside down - Like bellevuetlr says, "no reason to do this on a trackday.." My $0.02, find the limits of your setup through the school rather than the limits of your pockets through silly avoidable mistakes like mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 OK, how do you get the headbanging smilie face up there? CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonzilla Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 OK, how do you get the headbanging smilie face up there? CF I've been on this site for well over a year, and these issues have been kicking your butt the whole time. It's a joke that never gets old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 OK, how do you get the headbanging smilie face up there? CF I've been on this site for well over a year, and these issues have been kicking your butt the whole time. It's a joke that never gets old. I figured out the other smilies, but that was a one I didn't...guess I'll just have to ask Pete. CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lwarner Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 OK, how do you get the headbanging smilie face up there? CF I've been on this site for well over a year, and these issues have been kicking your butt the whole time. It's a joke that never gets old. I figured out the other smilies, but that was a one I didn't...guess I'll just have to ask Pete. CF LOL Just use the "insert image" button and use this address: http://www.600rr.net/vb/images/smilies/old/banghead.gif BTW Jasonzilla, what's your screen name on 600rr.net? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonzilla Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 BTW Jasonzilla, what's your screen name on 600rr.net? I'm not sure I've been on that site. Part of the reason I've changed my name on this one is because I'm "Jasonzilla" on all of the other ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6blade07 Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 CF try this for the rest of 'em! http://www.600rr.net/vb/misc.php?do=getsmi...d=vB_Editor_001 Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 OK, how do you get the headbanging smilie face up there? CF I've been on this site for well over a year, and these issues have been kicking your butt the whole time. It's a joke that never gets old. I figured out the other smilies, but that was a one I didn't...guess I'll just have to ask Pete. CF LOL Just use the "insert image" button and use this address: http://www.600rr.net/vb/images/smilies/old/banghead.gif BTW Jasonzilla, what's your screen name on 600rr.net? Oh yeah, some funny stuff there. Took some help to get the url though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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