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How Not To Do It


Mort
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Just came across this

put up by some guy who likes videoing sport bike riders in the US on a twisty road..

 

I found it quite informative and more than occasionally funny.

 

You'll see every riding error in the TOTW2 book here:

  • Bad throttle control
  • Turning in too early
  • Chopping the throttle
  • hanging off too far
  • Too much throttle
  • Target fixation
  • etc
  • etc...

 

Text book stuff... Look, learn and laugh. (Especially the one who sees a cop and instantly falls off)

 

cool.gif

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Having watched this it reminded me how ill-suited sport bikes are for the street (or the "twisties"). I have both a street sportbike and an old road bike and ride them very differently. When I am on the sportbike I want to ride like these guys do in these videos but I keep looking at the limitations the street imposes on all of us. Like the one where the rider hits a guardrail face first; truly fortunate that someone else had separated it from its vertical support post before he kisses it; allowing it to move when his head hits it.

 

Sport bikes seem to need the intensity and energy we all experience from riding them on the track but degrade into just a giant tease [iMHO] on the street. Let's see there's jail, the hospital, the morgue and a lot of places in between and as an extension of this I am fascinated by my own split personality from riding a street bike and a sportbike on the street. On the old street bike I just go along to get along but on the sport bike, I am looking for un-signalized corners or roundabouts, linked corners on country roads and then when I am on these sections find myself holding back for all of the reasons listed above. Actually I have had enough close calls that this is not paranoia on my part (or at least I like to think so).

 

Am I the only one here who find sport bikes on the street a paradox?

 

Rain

 

 

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I do agree with you on the Sports Bikes for the road issue, my problem being that I only have the room and budget for one bike, so it has to be able to do both. Arguably I should have a proper road bike that will also handle the track, but it seems I've gone for the opposite of that.

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Am I the only one here who find sport bikes on the street a paradox?

 

Rain

You are not the only one... All things considered, I would prefer to never ride my R6 on the street again. I feel lucky to have an alternative with my old VMAX, but for now I do still have to keep my R6 street legal and take it out occasionally. If my wife wouldn't put me out in the dog house, I would probably sell off my two bikes and get the Triumph Street Triple R that I keep drooling over.

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Am I the only one here who find sport bikes on the street a paradox?

 

Rain

You are not the only one... All things considered, I would prefer to never ride my R6 on the street again. I feel lucky to have an alternative with my old VMAX, but for now I do still have to keep my R6 street legal and take it out occasionally. If my wife wouldn't put me out in the dog house, I would probably sell off my two bikes and get the Triumph Street Triple R that I keep drooling over.

 

Funny you say that, I've had my insurance renewal through on my S1000 and it's simply not affordable, when I bought it last year, there weren't any crash or theft statistics to base the quotes on, these have obviously come in now and I just can't justify paying it. The Street Triple R is on my radar to replace it with...

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Same here riding on the road just isn't fun for me anymore too many idiots around and having my son born last year has given me new priorities, so when winter comes the rc is getting a track make over and I'll be buying a xt660 tenere for touring

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Having watched this it reminded me how ill-suited sport bikes are for the street (or the "twisties"). I have both a street sportbike and an old road bike and ride them very differently. When I am on the sportbike I want to ride like these guys do in these videos but I keep looking at the limitations the street imposes on all of us. Like the one where the rider hits a guardrail face first; truly fortunate that someone else had separated it from its vertical support post before he kisses it; allowing it to move when his head hits it.

 

Sport bikes seem to need the intensity and energy we all experience from riding them on the track but degrade into just a giant tease [iMHO] on the street. Let's see there's jail, the hospital, the morgue and a lot of places in between and as an extension of this I am fascinated by my own split personality from riding a street bike and a sportbike on the street. On the old street bike I just go along to get along but on the sport bike, I am looking for un-signalized corners or roundabouts, linked corners on country roads and then when I am on these sections find myself holding back for all of the reasons listed above. Actually I have had enough close calls that this is not paranoia on my part (or at least I like to think so).

 

Am I the only one here who find sport bikes on the street a paradox?

 

Rain

 

 

 

 

 

 

Im with the street bike group.

 

Racing bikes on a track and riding on hills with ups and downs eats up way more of the 10 dollars worth of attention than a bike tuned (actually more like detuned) for the streets and hill twisties.

 

the acceleration control and brakes on a racing preped bike alone which is already near limits on flats can become nasty on up and downhills ...

 

I live on the lower side of a hill and my routes have literally forced me to develop 3 types of riding styles , uphill, flat and downhill.

 

MOST TOTW2 techniques (near 95%) work fantastic on flat and uphill turns but IMHO not so great on downhills where the front fork is usually more loaded partially due to gravity and the rider (me)

 

for ex: trail braking into the turns up to 15 degrees work fantastic for me with a firm street tuned fork for downhill hairpin turns and then its roll-on time :)

 

I really hope Mr Keith Code can write something on downhills thou... cant seem to find much on that area of riding ... im free to criticism too ^^

 

 

 

 

Just my 2C

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just my 2c

 

 

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Thanks for the videos, Mort. They're fun to watch, when they're happening to someone else. :(

 

Not than any of US would ever do this but, the first guy, the one who high sided: it looked like he could have just ridden that slide out. I've seen pro riders slide that much on purpose in every turn. Instead, it looked to me like our YouTube hero chopped the throttle and made everything worse. Is that how it looked to you?

 

The other thing that surprises me on most of these street crash videos is how short the slides are (and how badly the bikes are damaged). I'm used to seeing professional racers crash at 120 mph and slide half way back to the front straight, but it looks like a lot of street riders slide 20-30 feet. They often stop before they can even rip through a pair of blue jeans.

 

Strangely, I find that a bit comforting.

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What is NOT comforting at all is how easily and quickly they were lowsiding... Even sounds like they are on the throttle... Maybe too much input at the bars??

 

Not sure exactly which videos you watched, but I had the same reaction - wow, it sure looks easy to crash! But when I watched more closely I saw, in various videos:

1) Throttle chop mid-corner resulting in a highside

2) Trying to make a mid-corner steering correction by turning the bars INWARDS (not countersteering)- lowside

3) Grabbing the front brake mid-corner while leaned over (the one where he sees the cop!) - lowside

4) A couple of examples of guys on 1000cc bikes who where leaned WAY over and got on the gas too hard, or leaned it ever more while rolling on.

5) Target-fixation - the guy who rides right off into the dirt, even though he was going slower than all the guys the went before him, and should have easily been able to turn it.

 

I wonder also if some of those guys were using or dragging the rear brake? And, keep in mind, we don't know much about their tires - could have been cold, or bald, or have incorrect air pressure.

 

What I found a bit frightening were some of the comments people made about the videos - one commentor seemed to blame body position for every crash - there are obviously a lot of misunderstandings out there about riding.

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Why would anyone want to ride like that on the street anyway? I like to ride hard but I don't trust other people or the road surface, I rather spend the money and go to the track and have the peace of mind.

 

I like the guy on the scoot with the slip on shoes that go flying off.

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Ah, the famous Snake section on Mullholland Drive Malibu, CA. I ride this road often (usually when less busy) and from my limited experience I find it challenging. From what I see when entering this turn is that it is a decreasing radius, ascending, and off camber. To top it off there are camera crews and so many people hanging out on this turn filming and spectating on the weekends. It's fun and it does light me up with survival reactions if I'm not careful, but I usually ride about 70 % or less on the road and on less busier days. The track is a much better place for the sport bikes. I myself have to work on getting in more riding on track than on these twisties.

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Modern sporting bikes offer performance way above what's prudent on public roads. In fact, any sportbike made since 1985 have more performance than what one should use on roads shared with others. Doesn't keep us from trying, and as long as things are going according to plan, we get away with it. But going really fast leaves too little in reserve when things are not 100% as expected - lots of hazards to pick from. Personally, I find it more satisfying to leave 150 hp bikes behind riding a 30 hp motorcycle from 1980 than trying my best on a 150 hp race rep and not even getting close to its limits. I much prefer bikes that have limits just below my own and with limited power so that I rarely bother to ride faster than 60 mph /100 kph because they feel gutless at those speeds.

 

 

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I find it more satisfying to leave 150 hp bikes behind riding a 30 hp motorcycle from 1980 than trying my best on a 150 hp race rep and not even getting close to its limits. I much prefer bikes that have limits just below my own and with limited power so that I rarely bother to ride faster than 60 mph /100 kph because they feel gutless at those speeds.

 

Eirik;

 

I have a late 60's Triumph Bonneville that is lucky if it puts out 38 HP but it is still a great treat to ride. I don't feel the need for speed (not that it could give it to me if I wanted it) and while on it I am so "in the moment" that what you wrote rings so true for me as well.

 

Rain

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  • 4 months later...

It's a bit frightening how many people are out there riding dangerously. But on the other hand, I'd rather learn from someone else's mistakes rather than my own (generally much less painful, and not as expensive that way)...

 

A more recent one that got alot of coverage and generated alot of comments was the guy who crashed his $140,000 Ducati right there. (He bought an 1198RS and put everything he could into his 1098 street legal/registered frame.)

 

 

Alot of people on another forum were asking what is wrong with the corner for so many people to crash there, I say the only problem is that people are trying to ride beyond their ability, and not riding to the circumstances. Regardless of whether it's off camber, there's bumps mid-corner, there's paint over whole sections of the road (that's what all the dark black patches are, it's there to cover graffiti), it's still the riders job to safely navigate those challenges. So it kind of baffles me when I hear people saying stuff like 'oh don't worry, $#!% happens' or 'you're going to crash every now and then'. Because people don't 'just crash' and crashes don't 'just happen', not ever (we all know there's always a cause & reason for a crash, and a way to avoid it).

 

At least not everyone is on a mission to destroy that armco. This is my new favourite vid (plus how good does the bike sound!)

 

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