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Traction Control , What Are Your Experiences?


fritzdacat
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Hi, I'm curious, now that you're all driving S1000RR's (SB-school) what are your experiences with traction control? Is it a "must have" or does it spoil drivers? Were there less or maybe even more crashes ? (if you don't mind telling :-) )

 

thanks in advance

 

Uli

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I haven't ridden a bike with traction control yet. I do remember seeing someone on this forum say that it reduced their student wrecks by about 60% by having the traction control and ABS.

Yes, I saw that too, still, as a driver I would like to be able to handle a bike without TC... then again, I could just turn it off, couldn't I? Or does the ride-and-slide-bike make up for that and give me all the experience I need?

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I haven't ridden a bike with traction control yet. I do remember seeing someone on this forum say that it reduced their student wrecks by about 60% by having the traction control and ABS.

Yes, I saw that too.

Without rummaging through the past postings, I am quite certain that the 'someone' was Cobie himself.

 

Just make sure you know how to ride the bike with and without the TC/ABS gadgets...

 

Kai

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After we had gotten a full season in, we found the final number of reduced crashes overall was a solid 1/3 drop. We are finding that students crash more on their own bikes than on ours. But...the number is very low, and we just finished 2 days at Las Vegas with great condtions, and zero crashes in 2 days.

 

TC for sure has saved many, but it won't make up for huge riding errors, and even at the top level one can defetat the tracion control by making a technical error and crash.

 

CF

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Hi, I'm curious, now that you're all driving S1000RR's (SB-school) what are your experiences with traction control? Is it a "must have" or does it spoil drivers? Were there less or maybe even more crashes ? (if you don't mind telling :-) )

 

thanks in advance

 

Uli

 

There is no doubt is has helped. Even if one decided they didn't want to use it eventually (some top racers don't, but many do), one could learn what the bike wanted from the rider. That and a clear understanding of what the bike wants, is winning combination.

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I have the Bazzaz traction control and like it. It will not save you from high siding if you are bound and determined to do it.

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If you really want to get technical you can set the traction control up for different rpm ranges in different gears. Lets say that I am at Laguna Seca in turn two second gear at 9000 rpm. set the traction control to be at its peak setting at 10,000 and back it off to 50% at 9000 rpm. You can do this for the entire track. Or you can just set it up to be 50% through the entire range or 100% or you can add or subtract bias as conditions change. It's sweet.

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After we had gotten a full season in, we found the final number of reduced crashes overall was a solid 1/3 drop. We are finding that students crash more on their own bikes than on ours. But...the number is very low, and we just finished 2 days at Las Vegas with great condtions, and zero crashes in 2 days.

 

TC for sure has saved many, but it won't make up for huge riding errors, and even at the top level one can defetat the tracion control by making a technical error and crash.

 

CF

 

I was part of these great two days and many wondered how common offs were in class, since we had none. Great experience.

 

I've also been looking into an additional bike with track use in mind. How much does abs help on the track? The street applications are obvious but is locking up as big a threat on the track? One bike I've looked at, and compared to the S1000rr, is the new Duc 848 Evo corse, which doesn't have abs available.

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But would ABS change that?

 

Good question, I'd have to say a qualified yes. But...a truly skilled rider under perfect conditions can still brake better than ABS can stop. Now one get's into Survival Reactions, and what those can cause. If a rider (or driver) gets to a panic situation and pulls on the brakes and the old SR's are fully in action, ABS would help for sure. (if you don't know what SR's are, just let us know, we'll get a definition up here--it's in TWIST OF THE WRIST 2).

 

cf

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On the subject of electronic aids like TC and ABS, I think a good way to look at it is that they don't protect you if you're greedy with the throttle or sloppy with the controls. Some magazine reviews I've read seem to indicate that the S1000RR is an almost 'idiot proof' bike, that you could give it as much throttle as you want at full lean and the TC will save you, or that you could brake late and deep into a turn with increasing lean and the ABS would save you. But I find that really hard to believe...

 

I wouldn't be worried about it 'spoiling' you as a rider, or not enabling you to learn proper throttle and brake control. The way I look at it is that modern sportbikes are really way too powerful for the average rider, but TC and ABS gives you a larger safety net and makes more of the bikes performance safely accessible. That equals more fun!

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On the subject of electronic aids like TC and ABS, I think a good way to look at it is that they don't protect you if you're greedy with the throttle or sloppy with the controls. Some magazine reviews I've read seem to indicate that the S1000RR is an almost 'idiot proof' bike, that you could give it as much throttle as you want at full lean and the TC will save you, or that you could brake late and deep into a turn with increasing lean and the ABS would save you. But I find that really hard to believe...

 

I wouldn't be worried about it 'spoiling' you as a rider, or not enabling you to learn proper throttle and brake control. The way I look at it is that modern sportbikes are really way too powerful for the average rider, but TC and ABS gives you a larger safety net and makes more of the bikes performance safely accessible. That equals more fun!

Thank you for that detailed reply :)

 

Sure hope that the ".... evenly, smoothly and constantly throughout the remainder of the turn"-statement doesn't get lost somewhere between motor mappings and what traction-control-mode you ride in what weather. On my Fireblade throttle control saved me more than once from getting into trouble, believe it or not, rolling on the throttle smoothly has meanwhile become a new SR for me ... i see some wet dirt on the road right in the middle of a curve... I keep smoothly rolling on the throttle... and almost nothing happens maybe the rear is getting a little soft but that's nothing compared to losing the front and ending up in some ditch (at best).

 

Thanks to all of you for your answers

 

Uli

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Uli,

 

I don't think it will matter. At the end of the day, smoothness counts. On the BMW, the rain mode will smooth out bad rider input, but you can still have poor throttle control and it will affect the motorcycle.

 

I have had thoughts about this for a long time. For example, imagine a motorcycle that would graduate you to higher and higher speeds rather than let you open it up on a track. Therefore you slowly worked your way up and could focus more on body position, throttle control, and braking. Instead of charging the corner, you had to plan for it. And I thought the magic answer would be a motorcycle with a governor and a GPS, which might allow you to make 1-2 mph improvements over your baseline each lap. But then I realized we have something like that... 125s and 250s. :) Not to mention a technique, such as riding in a higher gear like 3rd or 4th.

 

I the case of the BMW, I run considerably slower in Rain Mode on the BMW. Part of it is because I can't accelerate out of a corner as fast as I'd like. The TC comes on pretty quick. It also softens the inputs. However, I could still send in bad inputs and it would overload the tires, or panic brake. TC and ABS can let you get away with some things, but they don't solve the problem of bad input.

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Uli,

 

I don't think it will matter. At the end of the day, smoothness counts. On the BMW, the rain mode will smooth out bad rider input, but you can still have poor throttle control and it will affect the motorcycle.

 

I have had thoughts about this for a long time. For example, imagine a motorcycle that would graduate you to higher and higher speeds rather than let you open it up on a track. Therefore you slowly worked your way up and could focus more on body position, throttle control, and braking. Instead of charging the corner, you had to plan for it. And I thought the magic answer would be a motorcycle with a governor and a GPS, which might allow you to make 1-2 mph improvements over your baseline each lap. But then I realized we have something like that... 125s and 250s. :) Not to mention a technique, such as riding in a higher gear like 3rd or 4th.

 

I the case of the BMW, I run considerably slower in Rain Mode on the BMW. Part of it is because I can't accelerate out of a corner as fast as I'd like. The TC comes on pretty quick. It also softens the inputs. However, I could still send in bad inputs and it would overload the tires, or panic brake. TC and ABS can let you get away with some things, but they don't solve the problem of bad input.

 

 

Thank you for your detailed description, chipset :-)

I totally agree with you.

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  • 1 month later...

To further the discussion on electronic aids, traction control specifically, I just wanted to share an interesting snippet from Two Wheels (Aussie bike magazine). What it comes down to is that anyone who thinks that traction control will interfere with their riding, are saying that they're better than Rossi. wink.gif

 

The Aprilia RSV4 APRC SE on traction control set at Level One is a lairy, snaking beast that's too much even for many experienced racers - it's like it was designed for Max Biaggi alone. The point there is, even he uses traction control, as does Casey Stoner, Rossi, Lorenzo and the rest. If it interfered with their riding they most certainly wouldn't use it. So the logic goes, if it gets in the way of your riding, you must be better than Rossi. Or better than the combination of Rossi and cutting edge electronics... you're good!

 

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To further the discussion on electronic aids, traction control specifically, I just wanted to share an interesting snippet from Two Wheels (Aussie bike magazine). What it comes down to is that anyone who thinks that traction control will interfere with their riding, are saying that they're better than Rossi. wink.gif

 

The Aprilia RSV4 APRC SE on traction control set at Level One is a lairy, snaking beast that's too much even for many experienced racers - it's like it was designed for Max Biaggi alone. The point there is, even he uses traction control, as does Casey Stoner, Rossi, Lorenzo and the rest. If it interfered with their riding they most certainly wouldn't use it. So the logic goes, if it gets in the way of your riding, you must be better than Rossi. Or better than the combination of Rossi and cutting edge electronics... you're good!

 

 

 

 

 

IMHO TC is like a two edged blade / tool , it can make or break the bike depending on how you ride...

 

RACE TC is really out of the league of most riders (i might safely sassume 95% of riders out there without training imho)

 

you can take a look at Kawasaki's TC, its phenomenal from an engineering/ computing standpoint ^^

 

http://image.sportrider.com/f/38881677/146-1110-05-z+advanced-traction-control+kawasaki-patent.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

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