# When Are You At Maxmium Lean Angle

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Assuming a 180 degree constant radius corner, when are you at your maximum lean angle?

1) When you are trailing off the brakes

2) Split second of no throttle

3) Maintenance throttle

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When are you at your maximum lean angle? I am assuming a standard 180 degree constant radius corner.

1) When you are trailing off the brakes

2) Split second of no throttle

3) Maintenance throttle

What does "maintenance throttle" mean to you? I want to clarify because it seems to mean different things to different people.

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What it means to me is that the throttle is just cracked open just enough to provide an even weight distribution on the bike.

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What it means to me is that the throttle is just cracked open just enough to provide an even weight distribution on the bike.

And at that moment.... are you actually accelerating ?

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I am not 100% sure the question makes complete sense as written, because I think that normally you would be totally off the brakes (done trail braking) before *reaching* your maximum lean angle for the corner. So, I am going to say that, ideally, you are at maximum lean angle during that moment of zero throttle, because once you got on the throttle the suspension extends a bit, moving your center of gravity higher so you don't need quite as much lean angle to carry the same corner speed on the same radius.

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I found out that when I actually hit my maximum lean angle I am on maintenance throttle.

So this is what I currently do: I'm coming into the corner under braking, turn-in while trailing off of the brakes, transition to maintenance throttle and hit my max lean angle near the apex, then start rolling on the throttle and picking up the bike. Does that sound about right?

Or is it you come into the corner under braking, turn-in while trailing off of the brakes, hit my maximum lean at the apex, then start rolling on the throttle as I am picking up the bike.

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Maintenance throttle you are actually rolling on not as aggressively to increase speed but to counter the slowing caused by the cornering forces and friction. More aggressive roll on will be required to increase speed. Just holding the throttle steady(slight open from 0 throttle) will not increase speed and you will still slow( effectively braking).

Maximum lean is achieved when you have completed steering input(you are on your chosen line)At this point you can then add throttle( maintenance) rolling on progressively your roll on rate can then increase as you pick the bike up.

Maximum lean is achieved when you finished steering and have begun to add throttle, ideally, before the apex.

Just my \$0.02

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Assuming a 180 degree constant radius corner, when are you at your maximum lean angle?

1) When you are trailing off the brakes

2) Split second of no throttle

3) Maintenance throttle

By specifying a 180 degree corner, you have made this a rather complex question. There is no way to really 'straighten out' a 180 corner, so there are many different ways to approach these types of turns. How you ride it can depend on the characteristics of the the road/track before and after the corner, the banking, the available traction, what type or bike you ride and your strengths as a rider.

To simplify the question, let's first consider a 90 degree turn. In that case, a good approach would be to get to max lean as quickly as possible (quick-turn the bike) and as SOON as the bike at the desired lean angle, start rolling on the throttle enough to get the ideal 40/60 weight distribution to maximize traction. (Depending on the turn, this can be well before the apex.) Later in the turn, when the bike is pointed in the direction you want for exiting the turn, you can begin picking up the bike and start your exit drive.

Now, back to the question of a 180 degree turn; the approach will depend a lot on the characteristics of the turn and the track. Most 180 degree turns can be ridden as double-apex; however if the turn is very tight and the track is wide, sometimes you can just use a single, late apex. If the turn comes after a fast part of the track (like a straight) there might be some advantage to carrying as much speed as possible INTO the turn, which could mean trail-braking all the way through past the first apex to your SECOND turn point. (This can be an effective technique in racing but is definitely not the safest approach so I'm not recommending it for street riding!) However, if I was riding a light, low horsepower bike like my Moriwaki, corner speed is everything so I would typically not trail brake at all, I'd get to max lean ASAP and then right back on the throttle to get that ideal 40/60 weight distribution, then just go flat on the throttle or dip it slightly at my second turn point.

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Assuming a 180 degree constant radius corner, when are you at your maximum lean angle?

1) When you are trailing off the brakes

2) Split second of no throttle

3) Maintenance throttle

If you are following the trajectory of that 180 degree constant radius corner, you are at your maximum lean angle when you reach the maximum speed; hence, at the end of your maintenance throttle (#3 above).

Note that with proper maintenance throttle (40/60 weight distribution), you are gaining around 3 mph per each second that you are turning.

However, if you are not following a perfectly circular trajectory, as in the cases explained above, you are at your maximum lean angle at the instant when you reach the combination of minimum radius of turn and maximum speed.

For any practical purpose, instantaneous lean angle solely depends on the square of the instantaneous velocity of the bike and on the inverse of the instantaneous radius of the circular trajectory.

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For any practical purpose, instantaneous lean angle solely depends on the square of the instantaneous velocity of the bike and on the inverse of the instantaneous radius of the circular trajectory.

Unless you change your body position at some point during the turn - such as by using hook turn, which allows you to tighten your line WITHOUT having to lean the bike more, or the pickup drill which allows you to stand the bike up more while keeping your combined center of gravity in the same place.

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You are at maximum lean angle when you are starting to feel uncomfortable end of story.

Positive throttle...never let it off....if you do at this point you will loose front end as too much weight will pass through the bike and your body.

Your maximum lean is different to mine as you are a different shape to me.

All this perfect position lark is nonesence it's about feel and practice.

You might invent a new way to get your bike over that beats anyone round a corner so practice and feel comfortable and relaxed and you will achieve more without thinking too hard mate.

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You are at maximum lean angle when you are starting to feel uncomfortable end of story.

Are you sure about that, or could that be a Survival Reaction causing the uncomfortable feeling?

What starts causing your uncomfortable feeling while cornering?

Bonus Question: What signals would the bike give you when it is approaching maximum lean, and what is maximum lean?

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You are at maximum lean angle when you are starting to feel uncomfortable end of story.

Are you sure about that, or could that be a Survival Reaction causing the uncomfortable feeling?

What starts causing your uncomfortable feeling while cornering?

Bonus Question: What signals would the bike give you when it is approaching maximum lean, and what is maximum lean?

hardware max lean = scraping parts

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Had a quick look at this thread, and one point I think can be potentially mis-leading is the term "maintenance throttle." I believe in car terms it means just holding, not accelerating or decelerating.

On a motorcycle, most times one is at maintenance throttle, the bike is slowing down, so some roll on is need to even maintain speed. And, since the rear tire is bigger (and other reason), a slight roll on is need (per TC rule #1).

CF

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There is another point brought up earlier in the thread, and one was cracking the throttle (from just off to on) beforereaching max lean.

What happens when the throttle is on, or cracked on or rolled on while the bike is still being leaned over, what happens to the line specifically the motorcycle is taking?

CF

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There is another point brought up earlier in the thread, and one was cracking the throttle (from just off to on) beforereaching max lean.

What happens when the throttle is on, or cracked on or rolled on while the bike is still being leaned over, what happens to the line specifically the motorcycle is taking?

CF

It runs wide because it makes the motorcycle stand up while doing the quick flick?

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There is another point brought up earlier in the thread, and one was cracking the throttle (from just off to on) beforereaching max lean.

I understand that it is taught to crack on the throttle as soon as the lean is complete, however don't you have to be with a slight roll on to achieve 40/60 weight distribution to get to max lean?

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If the throttle is cracked and rolled a little, the bike does run wide. Then the rider might have to wait a bit for the bike to come back to the line he wants. There are some situations where it isn't necessary to roll all the way off (esses with the 2nd turn faster than the first, but even in those cases for sure stop rolling on).

But in a "normal entry" turn, with say braking before it, if the throttle comes on too soon, bike runs wider than it should and one has to then "fix" that.

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If the throttle is cracked and rolled a little, the bike does run wide. Then the rider might have to wait a bit for the bike to come back to the line he wants. There are some situations where it isn't necessary to roll all the way off (esses with the 2nd turn faster than the first, but even in those cases for sure stop rolling on).

But in a "normal entry" turn, with say braking before it, if the throttle comes on too soon, bike runs wider than it should and one has to then "fix" that.

sounds erriely similar to steering corrections .

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If the throttle is cracked and rolled a little, the bike does run wide. Then the rider might have to wait a bit for the bike to come back to the line he wants. There are some situations where it isn't necessary to roll all the way off (esses with the 2nd turn faster than the first, but even in those cases for sure stop rolling on).

But in a "normal entry" turn, with say braking before it, if the throttle comes on too soon, bike runs wider than it should and one has to then "fix" that.

sounds erriely similar to steering corrections .

Yep

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If the throttle is cracked and rolled a little, the bike does run wide. Then the rider might have to wait a bit for the bike to come back to the line he wants. There are some situations where it isn't necessary to roll all the way off (esses with the 2nd turn faster than the first, but even in those cases for sure stop rolling on).

But in a "normal entry" turn, with say braking before it, if the throttle comes on too soon, bike runs wider than it should and one has to then "fix" that.

sounds erriely similar to steering corrections .

Yep

And you might also miss your turining point... which is very nasty, one whole avalanche of things going wrong is gonna happen...

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