acebobby

Another thing that can cause tiredness in the arms is using them when you dont need too, are you remembering to relax after you have steered!

Looks like the UK release date for the DVD has been put back again to the 21st OCTOBER! Really looking forward to getting this, I hope this is the last time the release date gets put back!

I dont think the answer is to go in any deeper, but maybe try to use the same turn point and to start with the same entry speed, 2 step the turn so that you use the same line but increase only the speed you steer the bike then if my interpritation of TOTW2 is correct you should be going round the corner at the same speed as before but without leaning the bike as much!

Would turning the bike quicker at your turn point not let you carry more speed with less lean angle?

This year has been a good one for me with regards to schools and trackdays, I managed to get my level 2 and 3 done on a soggy Rockingham circuit, managed my annual trip to the Nurburgring, and got a decent amount of trackdays at Donington GP, Cadwell Park, and my local Knockhill, all without incident! This week I did 2 days on Knockhill, these days will be most likely my last of the year as the temp is rapidly dropping here in Scotland. The point is how much I've improved throughout this year and I put it down to Butch (my UK CSS Coach) pushing me for improvement at the school and also the discussions I have had with you guys on here, I have got some very useful information over the year, so thanks for that and keep the discussions going! On my last track day I decided to focus mainly on one thing, the one thing that Butch had noticed was a weak point in my riding, and that was steering and my quickturn! In the morning it was wet so it wasn't easy to commit to a good positive steering input but I had made my mind up that I was going to work on this drill, so thats what I did, it dryed out in the afternoon and still I persisted to focus on the steering, now I dont have a lap timer but I think if I did, I would have seen the lap times dropping, I really came away from that trackday feeling like I had significantly improved an area of my riding, and just a little annoyed that its the end of the season! Anyway I guess at least now I can look forward to the twist 2 DVD and look forward to Andy Ibbot getting the 2010 schedule up, but keep on posting guys and girls because its going to be a long cold winter! Bobby

Some really good answers guys, I am not anywhere near the level of Stuman and I would not know where to begin searching for the limits of front traction mid corner, and I wouldn't know what to do if I found that limit! I do however mess around with my roll on at the exit of a turn, combining it with the pick up drill looking for for the limits of the rear there!

There has been alot of discussion on the forum about tyres recently so here's another tyre question! When you think of how much grip you have with whatever tyres you are using, where or when would you expect to run out of grip? The begining of the turn (at turn in) with or without trail braking The middle of the turn (at max lean angle) or the end of the turn (driving through the exit) Which end (front or rear) would you expect to go first? This is just a general question directed at everyone! Bobby

I thought someone would have posted this by now, looks like you will be needing to update the Champions trained section of your website as Leon Camier has recently become the British Superbike Champion, with a record amount of victories! It is also rumoured that he may be riding the Aprillia RSV4 at this weekends round of world superbikes!

The trailer for the film looks really good, there's a good interview with Keith about the film in the press section with on the throttle tv! Looks like the release date here in the UK has been put back to the 15th of Oct! Hay Cobie is that you in the suspension setup section of the film?

Hi Jason, I need to ask you, what do you mean about opening your hips? can you give an explanation on what your doing when you open your hips please? You said you were thinking of starting another thread regarding this technique and I think maybe you should! Thanks Bobby

Got mine pre-ordered, should be released on the 8th of October here in the UK! For anyone else here in the UK interested in pre-ordering the DVD, If you order it before the 2nd of October there is a promotional code on the site that gets you £2 off your order!

I like the idea of a section dedicated to tyres, I'm a bit fanatical about them, I personally would think that the setup and handling section should cover tyres, but a while ago we were discussing the possibility of starting a section aimed at the products we use and how we rate them, would we recommend them etc! This I think is still a good idea and I think that good discussions on tyres could be started in that section along with things like which leathers, what helmet, which rearsets etc do people use and recomend! The problem with getting tyre reps to write on the forum is this, guess what tyres the dunlop guy is going to say is best, do you think the michelin guy and pirrelli guy will be of the same opinion? All the tyre manufacturer's have a contact email address on there webpage, This is something I use regularly, at the moment I have dunlops and the service and information I receive from them is second to none, the guy at dunlop that I talk to says, see it as after service for purchasing our tyres, I now have a list of pressures from wet and cold to very hot and dry and the tyres I use aren't even top of the range performance tyres!

Hay hub.. I mean Jasonzilla, changing your name is no big deal really but getting married 3 times, well thats just madness! lol as you say your a squid again so you better get posting to raise your status!

Dani Pedrosa uses foam at the back of the seat to push him forward on the bike, I also saw quite a few girls using it at the nurburgring earlier this month!

Think of this simple scenario fossilfuel! Imagine a flat 90 degree right turn, someone has conveniently spray painted a 2 yellow X's on the track, one for turn point and one for would be apex! You go around this corner using the markers consistently increasing your speed at turn entry, so to continue to follow this line all you have to do is quickturn the bike a little quicker to match the faster entry speed! At what point will this line not work? Would you reach the limit of how fast you can quickturn a bike, or would it be more like you get to a point where you are unable to follow throttle control rule #1 through the turn! As your speed increased would you feel tempted to turn in a little earlier, knowing it would most likely cause you to run wide on the exit? Is turning in a little bit earlier maybe just caused by a lack of confidence in our ability to quickturn a bike at the faster entry speed?

"What lets you know you are in too fast?" I end up off the track heading for the armco screaming like a little girl? but really, I don't hit the turn point, I turn in to early and late apex the turn? Just a quick question on this, not that I know but I may be misreading this statement! If you turn in too early would you not hit the apex earlier, then run wide? I would imagine a later turn point would create a late apex, then leave you plenty of room to drive out of the turn! I cant see how you can turn in too early and late apex, it doesn't make sense to me! Bobby

HI Bullet, How you doing mate? What happened? Broken collarbone is not so good, hope you get well soon mate! Bobby

Hi db I have done the same in the past, go out to a trackday with the intentions of working on specific drills, then end up riding on the raged edge trying to keep up with faster guys, and learning nothing in the process! Dont do it, track time is not only expensive but you just dont get enough of it to waste time, you may not even know the experience of the guys that are passing you, so forget everyone else out there and focus on yourself, work on the drills you are familiar with, the ones you have been taught, if you haven't done L3 yet dont waste to much attention on body position unless you are dragging hard parts leaned over, work on your L1 drills, pick a drill to concentrate on and spend a session doing it! For me I pick 1 or 2 drills for each session throughout the day, usually my first session is focused on throttle control and visual skills, working on this gives me comfortable lines to use, remember a good line is one where TC rule #1 can be applied, and as far as visual skills are concerned, this has given me the biggest break through in my riding! I work on specific drills throughout the day, and on my last session I just have a bit of fun and dont really focus on any specific drill, but the ones I have been working on just feel more natural, on every track day I have done, by the last session the fast guys dont seem so fast anymore! Bobby

There is a mental side to this, I once saw a sketch of 3 riders leaned over, in the first sketch the rider was at 25 degrees but thought he was at 45 degrees, in the second the rider was at 45 degrees but thought he was only at 25 degrees, and in the third the rider was at 45 degrees and thought he was at 45 degrees! obviously rider 3 is able to ride the best, where rider 1 is probably the safest he's not going to get much faster and as for rider 2, well its just a matter of time till he crashes! Do you know exactly where you are regarding lean angle or are you a bit more like sketch 1 or 2? After I did my level 3 this year I remembered about this when I saw a photo of myself not carrying much lean angle through a corner that I thought I was doing quite good, so it looks like I ride a bit like sketch 1, the funny thing is my tyre wear makes it look like I've been leaning quite far!

Welcome to the forum Vaidas, feel free to join in with some of the discussions, or even start a new one!

As I have been getting faster I have found this to become a bit of an issue, whenever it occurs I put my attention on my entry speed and my desired entry position on the second corner, and focus on exiting the first turn so that I am lined up precisely where I want to be for the second turn! It usually feels like I'm taking the first turn to slow but pays of when I enter the second turn! sorry for taking the thread a bit off topic here!

I wont mention names but there is a riding school here in the UK that teaches the students to coast to the apex, i.e brake for the turn, turn in, coast (off the throttle) to the apex then, on the throttle and drive out of the turn! Before doing CSS I used to ride like this, I also lowsided on a wet track riding like this! Now for me getting the 60-40 split is crucial, I also get anoyed with myself if I notice a gap between when I've turned the bike and getting on the throttle.

1st at the end of the session; guess I was getting tired and same time speeding up 'cause session was OK, going well otherwise 2nd just in the beginning; guess I was too confident and the "rhytm" of the track wasn't clear for me during the first laps (even it was a track I know well) You think it might be possible that you were leaning on the bars a lot, and maybe that may have contributed to your overwhelming the front tyre at all? Bullet This is an interesting point! I have to constantly remind myself to relax, I'm getting better but I could imagine that it would be easy to put some weight on the bars towards the end of the session when tiredness starts to kick in, its really amazing how much influence your body actually has over a small sports bike probably about 1/3 of the weight of the rider plus bike package is the rider, so you could lap all day using the same lines, same body position, same everything then near the end of the day when you begin to get tired start leaning on the bars a little, you have to think, how much more weight are you asking the front tyre to take? 30 lbs, 40 lbs, maybe even 50 lbs extra over the front end! I've heard of people lowsiding and they dont understand why, they will insist that they took the corner the same as usual and the front just went, could it be that they simply asked the front end to carry more weight through the turn that time round?

Ok Bobby, some questions for you, whilst you're in thinking mode then. What is the pick up drill for? Could you react quickly enough with pick up drill to counteract a slide? If you think about what the rear tyre is already doing when it starts to slide, what would be the consequence of either rolling on more throttle, or alternatively chopping the throttle? Bullet Ok, I believe the pickup drill is for getting a bit more power down at the exit, preferably enough that the rear squirms or spins just a bit as your picking it up! When I think what the rear tyre is doing when it starts to slide, I think coming around, I know that at this point chopping the throttle is not an option as it will result in a highside, I understand that by maintaining a constant throttle will act like a rev limiter and the tyre will regain traction smoothly, then I guess you continue the roll on! Its the last option I wonder about, keep rolling the throttle on (TC rule #1)! Ok so I imagine that the rear tyre will keep coming around and your lean angle will increase until your in a lowside situation, even if it does regain traction before lowsiding then your bike will most likely be pointing towards the gravel at the inside of the turn unless you have used the pickup drill a bit to keep the bike headed in its desired direction, I'm not sure if you could react quickly enough with the pick up drill to counteract a slide, possibly not unless you started the slide intentionally! Bobby

I'm bumping this thread back to the top rather than starting a new one This is probably a classic case of me over thinking things but I have been reading my copy of performance riding techniques by Andy Ibbot and it says that during a slide the bike is automatically self correcting by being steered into the slide, this is mentioned in the twist books too and I understand that completely, the question I have is why does the pick up drill not contradict this self correcting as you are effectively straightening the bike during a slide? Also why is it thought best that during a slide we should hold the throttle in position effectively using it as a rev limiter to come out of the slide rather than just training our selfs to continue rolling on the throttle and using the pickup drill at the same time? Which of these 2 techniques would give the best result? Bobby