Fajita Dave

There is no reason why you couldn't. I've never heard of a motorcycle that wouldn't let you shift as many times as you want while keeping the clutch pulled in. On the track I'm not sure if its really a good idea. It would be very easy to over rev the bike if you let the clutch out to early and possibly ruin your engine. I do it once and a while on the street going up to stop lights or downshift 3 or 4 gears to pass someone on a two lane road. Off-road I skipped past gears very often whether it was on the ground and in the air to setup for the next section I was going to hit. The gear ratio on my dirtbike is much closer then it is on any street bike though so it made it easier. Also there were no valves to strike on a 2 stroke engine if I screwed up.

In my opinion exit speed has very little to do with your entry speed. From my limited experience exit speed is mostly decided by your on-throttle point, apex (which can change your on-throttle point), and how heavy you can get on the throttle. Your overall corner speed will have an effect but if you're near the max lean angle with a decent entry it wont make a big difference on exit speed. Just because you could go much faster through the exit doesn't mean you can go any faster through the entry. For me the entry speed is decided whether I can reach my apex or not. If I go wide and don't reach the apex my entry speed was to fast. If I don't use all of the track at the exit that means I can either get on the throttle sooner or harder, how much more throttle I can use is decided by visual cues and if traction allows for it. If I still can't use all of the track on the exit I might need a slightly earlier apex. I feel like I can enter a corner slightly faster with an earlier apex but it will make the exit wider. Like other people have said there are still a lot of variables that could be caused by something other then the line you're using. Thats the kind of stuff I don't know much about yet. I used to have a habit of apexing way to early which I think came from my off-road experience. An early apex didn't really matter on the motocross track because you'll just slam it into a berm or rut and rocket out of the corner anyway. So now that I'm playing on asphault I've spent a lot of time studing how the lines work and how braking/throttle inputs effect them .

I'm pretty sure he means manual braking as using the brakes and friction braking as the cornering force/engine braking slowing the bike down.

I'm trying to find a video that I found on youtube about a year ago but Rossi himself said this exact thing while talking about lines. "There are two different lines, a qualifying line and a racing line. The faster line is always the quick turning line so thats what you use to qualify. The racing line uses trail braking so you can be defensive". He didn't give the reasons why but I have some ideas. I just need to find a good way to word them. This is all kind of general information and in no way explains some of the details. I'm sure in some corners one technique is going to be faster then the other. Also I can absolutely be wrong about all of this. Fast lap times is all about carrying as much corner speed as possible while still using the latest braking point and the earliest on throttle point without going wide. Trail braking lets you enter corners fast but ruins your speed at the apex and exit. Quick turning makes you enter the corners slow but you maintain more speed at the apex and exit. Maintaining speed through and exiting a corner tends to lower lap times. If you trail brake its impossible for the motorcycle to lean as low and turn as sharp compaired to being on the throttle slightly. This means in order to maintain a good line while trail braking you need to run it up the inside of the corner to avoid going wide sense the bike can't turn sharp, scrub exessive speed to hit your apex because of corner entry and that also ruins your exit speed. This works excellent as a defensive line and the late braking point means its still pretty quick, however, there is no possible way to maintain max speed because of the corner entry and it also forces you to get on the throttle later making the corner exit slower. A quick turning line does require an earlier braking point and a slightly wider corner entry but this lets you maintain much more speed through the corners apex and exit. Even though the entry to the corner is a little slower the speed carried through the corner and exit more then makes up for it. You don't see it much in Moto GP but how many times have you seen racers "square up" their opponents to get a run on them exiting a corner so they can make the pass on the straight away? I've watched Ben Spies pass a lot of people exiting corners because he used a wider entry and quick turning where as the person infront of him was trail braking. This is a perfect example of quick turning giving a rider the faster line to make a pass. Trail braking only lets you pass an opponent because your opponent needs to adjust his line to give you room. I think the Moto GP bikes can drive into the corners so hard on the brakes they tend to use trail braking much more then the rest of us. Our bikes and tires just don't let us run lines that even remotely compaire to a Moto GP bike or any factory racing machine. So quick turning tends to let you run faster laps then trail braking with the equipment we have. Depending on the track and details of course the difference in lap times probably isn't much. It might only differ by half a second per lap.

Maybe you were just feeling the difference between a worn tire's profile and a new tires profile. I just replaced my tires a few weeks ago (stock BT016s only run on the street at recommended pressure). They had a VERY strange feel because of how they wore. The front tire had three different profiles, flat in the middle, flat on the side at the lean angle I rode at most, and round from there to the edge. So at a lean angle anywhere between 0 and 20 degrees I had to hold pressure on the inside bar to hold down in the turn, anything between 21 and 35 degrees the bike really fell into the corner so I had to hold it up with pressure on the outside bar, and past that it was kind of normal. All of this just because of the odd wear pattern on my front tire and after a while this just felt normal. If I did lower the tire pressure it probably would have felt weird again. So when I put new tires on and leaned it into a corner it had a very weird feel. It almost felt like the front end was sliding out from under me because it leaned over so smooth and effortlessly. I could also completely relax on the bars and it will just maintain its line now.

I think the biggest thing that I notice switching between my CR250R dirtbike and GSXR600 is where the weight is. On my gsxr the weight bias feels very far forward and I feel like I'm sitting inside the bike and molded onto it. This gives it a very locked in and stable feel through the corners but it doesn't give you much freedom in terms of trying to move the bike around. It feels like all you can really do is counter-steer, set your body position, and twist the throttle. On my dirtbike the weight bias is dead center of the bike, super light, and I'm sitting on top of it. The weight being centered lets me carry the front end so it doesn't feel anchored to the ground like my sportbike. Also I'm in a riding position that really lets me muscle the bike around and move my weight anywhere I need it. With those things combined it feels like I can make the dirtbike do anything that I want it to.

You just have to try it. A rider is going to like different settings for their individual riding style. As you ride more you'll find what you like and don't like. The first time you make an adjustment its kind of a shot in the dark. You know its going to feel a little stiffer or softer, might feel a whole lot different under braking but you wont know if you like it until you try it. I just checked the sag recently on my 08' gsxr600. The front was around 45mm and the rear was at 25mm (kind of weird right?). I cranked the front preload all the way down until it wouldn't go any further and it came out to 30mm of sag and I only weigh 140lbs. I left the rear as it is. I did this because I was going to go to a track day in October but it was full anyway . So I haven't tried it on the track yet but just riding around on the street the braking is so much nicer! The front end doesn't dip anywhere near as much under braking and I have a bit more feel while doing fast transitions. Compaired to the preload now it just felt sloppy before.

I have no idea how good of a rider you are but you have to make sure you're throttle control is going to be ready for a race in the 1000 class. On the motocross track I used to wreck quite often from poor throttle control when someone starts to pressure me. I got used to the pressure pretty quick and now I have no issues with that at all. For most people racing is a totally different animal and the only thing that can prepare you for racing, is racing and learning to keep your nerves under control. I've never ridden a 1000 yet but a 600 would probably be a lot more forgiving when you push it a little to far trying to keep up with the guy in front of you. Other then that I don't see why it would matter what bike you're on. Racing is about going as fast as you can on the machine your riding with the track and conditions you're given. So it doesn't matter what you're racing its about how well you do it .

I have been playing SBK for the PS3 and recently switched to the "rider view" and I have to control his body position forward to back. Jeez what a new experience that is, I just wish they dampened the shaking a little bit. If I start sliding the rear tire around and let it recover the bike shakes all over the place and I can hardly see where I'm going. Next thing I know I see my braking marker fly by and now I have to shoot up the inside of the corner to avoid flying off the track! Everything feels so unnatural when you can't feel where the limits of traction are or move your head around to get a better view for a turn. After I got the throttle control smoothed out I think it would be excellent training aid. Reference points are critical and you NEED to be smooth with your inputs on this game otherwise the bike will throw you off quick. You can't apply throttle while leaning the bike over otherwise the rear end kicks out quick just like if you tried it on a real bike. Of course on a video game you tend to be slightly more aggressive then you would be in real life . I rarley go fast enough on the street to practice anything on my sportbike. Even when I do ride faster then I should on the street I hardly ever have to brake for a corner but I do pay attention to my turn in points, apex, and on throttle points. There are a few turns that got a whole lot easier after changing those three things and hopefully that kind of experience will help me find smooth lines when I get to the track.

Get some heated riding gear and theres no such thing as to cold . I've never been on the track in the cold (or ever yet ) but there would probably be a few things you would need to adjust to. I guess any tires would reach operating temp sooner or later but maybe a softer compound tire would be a good idea. You might have the cover part of the radiator to get the engine temps up depending on how cold it is. The thick gloves might be kind of weird too. I ride my sportbike all year as long as there is no snow on the roads. If you have the right gear its no problem at all even in 10 or 20 degrees fahrenheit. It does sound terrible when starting from that cold of a temp though and I'm not sure if its all that good for the engine.

I started riding dirtbikes when I was 9. My first bike was a 1996 Yamaha RT100 for one year and quickly graduated to a 1998 Honda CR80. When I was 16 (a little late ) I got a 2001 Honda CR250R and had the suspension fitted to my weight. All of them used but in great shape. I rode at Englishtown Raceway Park N.J. almost every weekend for 9 years until I moved. A few years after I moved here and no race track to ride my dirtbike on I decided to get a street bike. I've had a friend sense I moved here thats been going to CSS for quite and while and corner works for them twice a year. So that put me over the edge on getting a full out sportbike instead of something more for street riding and comuting. So I got a brand new 08' GSXR600 . Still haven't had a chance to take it to the track but thanks to the guidence of my friend I think I'll be well prepaired when I do get to a track day.

Haha actually I have no idea. I just found that picture on another forum . I looked for it but I couldn't find it anywhere. It looks like a good 75-80 degrees to me though.

I am by no means an expert at this yet but I enjoy trying to understand the physics of how a motorcycle works . I just have a hard time seeing how pre-load can cause a wreck that way. For the most part all it does it change your ride hight. More pre-load = higher ride (and higher center of gravity). Depending on what you're rear pre-load is set at, in theory more front pre-load can actually make the rear tire come off the ground easier because of the higher CG. That makes it harder to lock up the front tire under braking. I would think its more of a tire issue. Were there any cars that raced on the track before you? It looked like you might have picked up some loose rubber or something on that front tire. I can tell you from experience if you have a decent amount of grip and your front tire locks, you'll definitely know about it. If it just fell out from under you like you're explaining I don't think you had much if any traction in the first place.

I haven't low sided yet but I know something that you might have done wrong in that situation. Did you change your lean angle at the same time you got back on or increased the throttle? Lowering your lean angle + throttle usually makes the rear end step out extremely fast. There was a thread and video on it a while ago, I'm not sure where it is now. Even on a bike with that much power its very rare to lose the rear end and low side with nothing but throttle. Most of the time its 2 or 3 things that happen at once to cause a wreck.

Have a link to it? I can't video at work anymore. Ooops. I meant Stewart's video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a9EEAxqDrs...feature=related Its not as funny as the Ben Spies one.

I would have to say skill. If you have the skills (and confidence in your skills) then you can have complete trust that you aren't going to go down unless something unexpected happens. On the motocross track something unexpected can be happening behind the biggest jump on the track and I'd never know until I got there. However, I never think about it until it happens either. It doesn't require any courage if you don't think about what "could" happen. Of course you need to understand something bad could happen anytime you get on the track and be ready for it. I can guarantee you the fastest guys on the track are ONLY thinking about what they are doing and what the traffic is doing around them at any speed. Not what the consequences might be. I think thats the only way they can go as fast as they do.

I can't believe how serious he stays! I wouldn't be able to keep a straight face after saying that about the tracks.

Well hubbard I didn't get this name because I like fajitas. I was having dinner at a friends house and I wasn't use to making my own fajitas. So I over packed it and made a complete mess which is what gave me the name . Well sense I still have no track time I never reached that point yet (just found out today that I could have gone to VIR last week ). I would think if I start to feel one of the tires start to slide that would be the max lean angle for that specific situation (braking, accelerating, bumps or raise in the track). I'm sure it will take a few hundred or thousand hours of experience to figure out that kind of feel and timing which is probably what separates the amateurs from the pros. Edit: The max lean angle shouldn't be found by scraping parts either. It should be found by how much load the tires can handle before letting loose. To achieve that you need to have the right body position like hubbard stated earlier.

To much lean angle is right about at the same time you fall . I still haven't had any track time unfortunately but I do have a good friend with lots of track time that I've been leaning from. I enjoy trying to figure out the physics of these things too. From my own understanding the absolute max lean angle can only be achieved while you have the tires evenly loaded (40% load on front, 60% load on rear). The reason for this is the cornering forces are being spread evenly to both tires. If you're on the brakes you are putting more load on the front tire and it will give out way before the "maximum" lean angle. I could be wrong so it would be best to wait for someone else to reply and back me up. There are a lot of details that I can't help you with. Like I said above it depends on how each tire is loaded, body position, how much input on the brakes or throttle. Also different bikes and tires (including tire temps and pressure) will have different "max" lean angles. If you're looking to carry more corner speed and lower lap times there are much more important things though. The right braking points, turn in points, on throttle points, and throttle control is what lowers lap times along with good body position. Now if only I could get to the track and practice all of this.

Theoretically no . A 45 degree lean angle is always right around 1G regardless of the speed you are traveling. The only thing that changes is your turning radius. Think of it this way, if you start a corner at 40mph at a 45 degree lean angle (1G) and accelerate to 80mph while still at a 45 degree lean then how many Gs are you generating? The reason why your turning radius increases as you go faster is because it would take more G forces to keep you in the same radius as a slower corner. The reason why race cars like a F1 car produce more Gs the faster they go is because they generate more downforce. That downforce at higher speeds gives them more grip to hold the extra Gs. We don't have any downforce so it doesn't change at higher speeds. Like it was said above a 45 degree lean angle needs to be calculated by where the center of gravity is when you're hanging off. The bike might only be at a 40 degree angle but because of your body position its cornering more like its at a 45 degrees (probably not that drastic though). Thats why you can corner faster when in the hang off position. If anyone sees that I'm wrong about anything please correct it. I still have plenty to learn!

JB, Watch it again. If he had brake failure (or any other mechanical issue) why does he maintain his pace as he powers away from the incident and proceed to make the following two turns? He actually goes onto the grass on the following corner but not the next. I have had more than one mechanical failure on the track with the worst being a throttle stuck WFO (more than once). The first thing I always do is throw up my left hand up and then try to deal with the issue once I have alerted the following riders that there is a problem. What I never do is to keep going as if everything is all right. Kevin If you get head shake hard enough it can push the brake pads away from the disks. If this happens you need to pump the brakes 4 or 5 times and get the pads back in place. Just like when you change you're front brake pads and the pistons are pushed all the way in. Stuff like that can happen on the track. Someone who owns a motorcycle repair shop around here goes to track days pretty often. He came out of the last corner (I think at VIR) and his handle bars just turned sideways with no resistance and he went down. The last bike that went through there put oil down on the track and he was the first one to hit it.

I do think most street tires for sportbikes are softer compounds then track/race tires. The Bridgestone BT016s that are on my bike feel way softer when cold then slicks. I can actually compress the rubber with my thumb on my tires and I couldn't do that at all with the slicks I saw which hints that they are a harder compound. So if you run lower tire pressures with a soft street tire it will just overheat and you'll lose grip. You need to run the low tire pressures in the race tires just to get them up to temp. Has anyone ever taken a temp gun with them and tempted the surface of their tires after a track session? I haven't been on the track yet but I know just street riding I have done it with my tires. The front is usually around 145 degrees Fahrenheit and the rear is around 130 under normal riding around the speed limit in 80 degree weather. It would be interesting to see what the temps are when you get off the track.

That is a great picture! I don't think he could tuck his arm in anymore then that and its still rubbing on the rumble strip. Even his head is only about a foot off the ground! That has to be an interesting view of the track, I wonder if he can even judge his exit by vision or if he just goes for it knowing its there.

I HATE it when photographers take pictures at angles like that! He must have been holding the camera about 30 degrees from level and its so much harder to really see how low of a lean angle they are getting. I don't think I could even get those tires up to temp but I'd love to ride one of their bikes even if its just for 1 lap. This is my favorite picture of a low lean angle. Its a different type of bike and I'm sure it isn't exactly faster in this case but it looks like fun .

Oh yeah and another thing about staying mentally focused. Hydration has a massive effect on how well you can concentrate. When I had the motocross track to go to before I moved I was never far from the pits to get a drink. Now I only have hare-scramble trails that we might be on for an hour or two at a time. On one of my recent rides in 90 degree heat I didn't have enough to drink before the ride and nothing to drink on the trail. For the last 15mins of the ride I could not focus at all and I was probably going close to half the speed I was before. I had a hard time judging distance, lines, ruts, and overall felt exhausted even though physically I was fine (not even sore the next day). Not to mention I fell a lot more which made it even harder picking up the 210lb bike all the time. So stay hydrated and drink plenty of water before you start riding hard and sweating. It can drastically effect how well you can concentrate for the finish of a race or track day. For me it seemed to be at least a quart of water for 1 hour of riding. If your sweating a lot you wont need to worry about having to use the rest room while riding . Of course if its cool it wont be such a big deal.