benhamf15

I think getting your settings right on any motorcycle's suspension is important. With only two wheels, traction is critical. I met a guy who was complaining about how much the rear of his gixxer liked to slide. He was then purely a street rider & not terribly aggressive so it shouldn't have been a problem. I checked his suspension & it was way too stiff (pre-load, compression damping & rebound damping), especially in the rear so I set it up for him properly. I've since gotten him addicted to the track but even though he's much faster now, the rear of his bike stays planted on those same settings. Previously, the tire was just skipping over bumps & holes and not being allowed to follow the road. Basic suspension setup isn't vanity but there are plenty of posers who claim to be suspension experts. You can usually spot them because they'll have a full race Ohlins setup on a bike that's never been to the track. Find a reputable shop in your area to get it done to ensure it's done right. Post your area & someone here will probably make a recommendation. Benny

Although there is some great info here, I'm not sure the original question as to WHY you should mess with your suspension and get it set up correctly has been answered. When I quiz riders on what qualities they most want from their motorcycle when they're riding, the most frequent answers are stability and good traction. Suspension plays a key role in both. The main purpose of the suspension is to keep the tire's contact patch firmly in contact with the road surface (it's not there for comfort). The more contact it makes, the more traction you will have. If your suspension isn't set up correctly, it won't do as good a job in keeping that contact patch on the ground, thus reducing your available traction. As for stability, your suspension should only move as much as it needs to to keep you contact patch on the ground. Any more movement and it will feel bouncy and affect the bike's stability. As the suspension moves up and down over bumps, your wheelbase changes a bit, primarrily because your fork is at an angle. When your fork compresses, you wheelbase gets shorter (think of a chopper). When leaned over in a corner your steering head must change it's angle to stay on your line as the wheel base changes (longer wheel base requires the steering head to turn in more to maintain the same radius. Think of a Limo vs. a Fiesta on the same tight circle and how far you have to turn the wheels). More suspension movement (bouncing) causes more steering head movement. If you get tight on the bars you will transmit the bar instability through to the entire bike causing it to wallow around and feel really bad (hence the "Relax" drill in CSS level 1). This is a very simplified and incomplete stability lesson but it serves to make the primary point that suspension affects stability.. Even if your suspension isn't ideal, good throttle control as taught in Twist of the Wrist II and at CSS is the key to getting the most traction and stability out of it that it can possibly deliver (it's the key to getting the most out of great suspensions too). You can have a MotoGP bike set up by specialists but if your throttle control is bad it will never feel good. You could spend a lot of money chasing problems that you yourself are causing. So, my advice is to get your stock suspension adjusted for you by someone who knows what they're doing and it will be good enough for a very long time. If you want to make any upgrades, do it to your training so you can learn to get the best out of whatever suspension you have. Benny

Does anybody else find it ironic that Cal left the best non-factory team (Tech 3) because he wanted to ride for a Factory team (Ducati), only to have Ducati choose to run in the new Open class instead of the Factory class this season? I suspect that even with Ducati going to Open class (which I think is the right call for them), Cal's gonna have a tough time keeping up with his old bike. I love irony. It's unfortunate though... I like Cal. Benny

rchase, Barber is definitely my favorite track so far. I worked corners for CSS there in 2012 and had an absolute blast riding it. The elevation changes are awesome, especially coming up the hill into turn 4. I'd have been back for the 4 days last year if I hadn't gotten deployed on short notice. Jennings is a great track too. Although it's flat, it's a technical course with a great flow and several linked corners. I have no doubt you'd really enjoy it. We can chat more about it at Barber. See you there! Benny

No solid plans yet but I'll definitely hit a few days at Jennings GP which is my "home" track after I get back from my deployment. I'll be at Barber with CSS all four days. I'm also hoping to try NOLA and Road Atlanta this year. I'll post up here when I go in case anyone wants to try to join up. Are there any other Jennings GP regulars in this forum? Benny

There will be another rider in another group on your bike while you're in the classroom sessions, so the suspensions are set-up somewhere in the middle to accomodate the widest range of riders. It is rarely an issue for students because you're typically only riding at about 75-80% of your maximum pace in order to free up enough attention to focus on the specific drill you will be given for each ride. If, however, you DO have an issue with the setup you can talk to Will, the CSS mechanic, to find a solution. Benny

Welcome to the forum and the school! You will do level 1 the first day and level 2 the second so you will definitely get some training on body position. There is a good thread on fitness for riding in this forum you can check out for physical training. I wouldn't worry much about how you practice riding before the course but I would recommend reading A Twist of the Wrist 2 and/or watch the DVD prior so you are somewhat familiar with the basic material. It will help you absorb the large amount of info you will be presented during the school because it won't all be brand new to you. The book & DVD are available on this website or electronically at Amazon. Good luck and enjoy! Benny

Jeff, I've been away for a while. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you on this. I think I figured out where our disconnect is. I was talking about all the subsequent corners in a series but I think you were also thinking of the first. Hopefully my answers below will get us on the same sheet of music... Back to riding now. I am completly confident in my quick turning. Is there room for improvment? Yes. If you want to increase your entry speed onto the same line, what must you do with your steering rate... make it quicker, the same, or slower? It your are already at max lean then it will not be possible. -- I'm not talking about when you are already at max lean... I'm talking about when you are at your turn point and STARTING your lean. If you approach that same turn point and want to be on the same line but you are going faster at that point, you must get the bike turned/leaned QUICKER to whatever your max lean angle for that corner is in order to still be able to get on that same line. If you can't match the increased speed with the necessary steering rate, you will run wide and that will snowball in subsequent linked corners where you don't have time to recover your line. You will be forced to slow down. The limiting factor to your ability to go through linked corners faster is your ability to quick-turn the bike. There is no other way. How does this apply to a series of corners (s-curves) that you're trying to go faster through? In other words, what must you do to be able to go faster through a series of corners? It depends of the series of corners. Are they fast in slow out, or slow in fast out? Why does that matter? I was going along with the orignal theme of the thread. For those that trail brake "in the fast in slow out" could be hampered by how quick they can turn, at least for the first turn. So which steering rule would you apply? -- Fair enough. I've been saying that to get through a SERIES of linked corners, you must be able to steer more quickly to get through them faster while holding your same line. What I've been saying primarily applies to the second and subsequent corners. However, I would say that the entry into the FIRST of those corners is dealer's choice. Since it's a slow exit-speed corner (due to the subsequent corner immediately following it), trail braking can be a valid technique. You could either trail brake or quick steer into the first corner and which is faster for you depends on where your individual strengths lie. If you are a good quick-turner but not a good trail braker, you would probably get through that first corner faster by quick steering. Conversely, if you were a good trail-braker, you could probably go faster by trail braking. Did we get there this time? Benny

I would think you'd want a solution that measured force in 2 axes on each bar... both the vertical (straight down the forks) and the horizontal (in plane with the rotation of the bars). This could show how much a rider is "resting" on the bars, especially if he is holding himself up on the inside bar when hanging off (vertical measurement) as well as how much force is required to steer the bike (horizontal measurement). If you also summed up the forces too, It could be used to show how much wasted force there is when not pushing purely horizontally in plane with the bars to steer. Ideally it would be tied into the video on the video bike somehow so it could be seen in the video review. Of course, actually getting this done probably ain't so easy... or cheap. A lot of pro teams use a lot of sensors to gather telemitry data. Perhaps there's a sensor they already in use that could be adapted to this purpose. If so, it could probably be plugged directly into existing telemetrity gathering equipment making download simpler. Perhaps the data could be combined on the laptop with the video. Maybe the old BMW WSBK team has some gear they're willing to part with now that they're not going to need it anymore. Benny

Go Joe! He's joining Team Hammer in the AMA Daytona Sportbike series for 2014... http://www.amaproracing.com/rr/news/index.cfm?cid=58852

Sounds like another new bike project for Will to put together...

The earlier you learn proper riding techniques, the sooner you'll get better/faster. If you learn improperly at the start, you'll have to un-learn bad habits later on and that will slow down your progress. For best results, I recommend getting as much training as possible as early as possible. Strictly from a training point of view, I wouldn't wait longer just so you can do them together if you don't have to. Logistics may dictate otherwise (for example, travel costs force you into only one two-day trip). This will give you the best foundation to build on. Good luck and enjoy! Benny

If I put moveable ears on my helmet will I be able to look at two things at once? I might be on to something...

Spaghetti, I'm not living in that area but I can tell you there is a great track facility not too far away in Millville, NJ called the New Jersey Motorsports Park (http://www.njmp.com/). CSS does a couple of schools there each year & it has two excellent road courses. I didn't see any forum on their website after a cursory look but if you can find one it may be helpful to find some more specific info for your local area. If you do an internet search for race tracks or motorsports parks you may find a few other good tracks in your neck of the woods. I know they exist and one or two may have good forums associated with them. Another good source of info is Roadracing World magazine's annual Track Day issue. The new one should be out in a couple of months and the old one should still be available at http://www.roadracingworld.com. Further searching on this forum should give you some great info too. Benny

I'm glad to hear that. Keep it up and you will succeed. I'll take a swipe at em. So what's the real problem... your speed or your ability to get on your line? Neither, it's your confidence. You know, almost everybody has the ability to jump out of an airplane but how many have the confidence in themselves and their parachute to actually do it? If you can effectively quick steer will that help you get on your (wider) line with a higher speed? Yes. What happens to your line if you increase your entry speed but steer at the same rate as before? Your exit path will be closer to the outer edge of the track, or off the track. How does this apply to a series of corners (s-curves) that you're trying to go faster through? In other words, what must you do to be able to go faster through a series of corners? It depends of the series of corners. Are they fast in slow out, or slow in fast out? ScrmnDuc, So what's the real problem... your speed or your ability to get on your line? Neither, it's your confidence. You know, almost everybody has the ability to jump out of an airplane but how many have the confidence in themselves and their parachute to actually do it? You're right about jumping out of airplanes & skill... Anyone can jump out of an airplane and even the dumbest of the dumb will still find the ground one way or another. Trust me on this one, I've seen it first-hand. But back to the point regarding riding... if confidence is what is limiting you in your corner entries, what can you do to increase your confidence? Would you be more confident if you could quickly and precisely get on your intended line? If you could do so, would you be more confident in approaching the corner faster? I would suggest that learning & practicing the quick turn technique will GIVE you that confidence to enter corners with higher entry speeds. If you can effectively quick steer will that help you get on your (wider) line with a higher speed? Yes. What happens to your line if you increase your entry speed but steer at the same rate as before? Your exit path will be closer to the outer edge of the track, or off the track. Both exactly right. I should have included this question here in my original post for clarification: If you want to increase your entry speed onto the same line, what must you do with your steering rate... make it quicker, the same, or slower? How does this apply to a series of corners (s-curves) that you're trying to go faster through? In other words, what must you do to be able to go faster through a series of corners? It depends of the series of corners. Are they fast in slow out, or slow in fast out? Why does that matter? Go back to your earlier answer about what happens to your line if you increase your entry speed but steer at the same rate as before. Your (correct) answer was you run wide. So conversely, as your entry speed increases for the same corner/line, doesn't your steering rate have to increase as well if you don't want to run wide? If you're not able to steer quicker, won't that limit your entry speed if you're going to stay on the same line? Now apply that higher entry speed to corners that are linked together. If you want your entry in each to be higher without running wide, what must you do with your steering rate... increase it, keep it the same or decrease it? Can you see now why quick turning is the key to going faster through any linked corners? If you go in faster and can't steer faster you'll start to run wide and it snowballs from there. If you go faster but can steer faster, you can still get on your line allowing you to get through linked corners at higher speeds without that snowball effect. Did this help? Is any of this still unclear? Benny

Oh, this is new to me, I thought the braided steel lines were just to reduce expansion of the brake lines to give a better and more accurate feel on the brakes. Thanks for posting that. I can't prove it... but, I've seen a stock line cut by debris on a friends street bike. There's not a whole lot of structure/reinforcement in stock lines. Fortunately it didn't result in a crash, only an overshot stopsign at the end of the off-ramp. I personally would change the front lines on any bike I own whether they're street or track bikes for that reason but I really do like the gain in performance and feel you get with them as well. Besides, they are relatively inexpensive so I can't find a reason not to do it on the front. I rarely use the rear and it is better protected so I don't consider that necessary. Benny

Oh yeah... in the meantime read A Twist of the Wrist 2 by Keith Code, founder of the California Superbike School. It is available at the store on this website or can be downloaded to an e-reader at Amazon. Benny

For what it's worth, my R6S is still mostly stock and I ride in the expert group. I've only upgraded it when things wear out. Above all, it is important to keep your bike properly serviced. I've always gone by the owners manual although it never said anything about fork servicing. I learned about that from my trusted mechanic and it made a noticeable difference (at about 11K miles). With proper servicing and having the suspension set up properly for your weight, you can take a stock bike a long way. The key to getting that good performance from your bike is in learning to ride it properly. Do you think you'd be much faster if you jumped on a Moto GP bike right now? I wouldn't be. On most tracks, I run similar lap times to my R6S on the school's S1000RR (long straights excepted... the Bimmer has a monster motor). It's still my skills and bravery that are the limit to my lap times & not the bike(s). Your money will be much better spent on training at this stage than on upgrades. Training will make a MUCH bigger difference in your lap times. Besides... its more fun to pass fast guys when you're on a stock bike. I enjoy seeing their reaction when they come up to you in the pits and learn your bike is stock (& cost you half as much). Go get trained by a quality school. Shop around but I think you'll find most people think CSS is the best. Check their schedule and I think you'll find one within driving distance (VIR, maybe?). I've learned the CSS way from the beginning and I've had a lot of their training. I can't recommend it highly enough. I would only recommend two upgrades to you at this point: 1) Steel braded front brake lines. They can take hits from debris better than stock lines. It's a safety thing to ensure they always work when you need them but you will like the brake feel more as well. (About $100-150 plus installation.) 2) Track fairings to save the cost of your OEM plastics should something go wrong. Although, If you don't care how they look and don't intend to ride that bike again on the street, you can hold off until something happens to them and replace them with aftermarket fairings. (About $600-800 plus paint if you have them professionally painted. You can install them yourself. They may pay for themselves in a crash.) Welcome to the forum and good luck. Benny

Ace, I'm glad you found it useful. Thanks for saying so. Benny

rebobd, Welcome to the forum and glad to hear you got so much out of the school. I noticed your comment about riding an FZ8 at another school. I suspect I know which one that was. I'd be interested to hear what you have to say about the differences in the schools you've attended in the "Any Other Schools You Have Been To" thread under the School Questions section if you get a chance. Benny

err... shouldnt that be the other way around? I think it is important this question gets cleared up because there is clearly some mis-perception on this subject so here goes... 1) What gives you a wider radius through a corner... an early turn in or a late turn in? 2) If you can steer faster (i.e. quick turn) can you turn in later? 3) So, what effect then does quick steering have on your line choices... more choices or less? Benny So IMO this is a rather tricky issue to give a definitive mathematical answer for and heres why if you look at the corner as a whole, the quick flick technique means you could use a later turn point, be leaned over for less of the corner. This would straighten out the corner due to the line choice over a earlier turn point with a slower steering rate. In this regard the quick flick line could be considered to have a larger radius because of you have straightened out more of the corner. BUT if you look simply at the inputs, same entry speed, same turning point, the quicker steering input would achieve full lean angle sooner, apex earlier and exit tighter, while the slower input would apex later and run wider on exit, In this example the quicker steering rate would give you a tighter line and smaller overall radius for your line then a slow steering input. So I believe a quicker steering rate will always result in a tighter line, therefore a smaller radius, when compared directly to a slower rate of steering, however relocating your turn point in the corner based on that quicker steering input can result in a larger radius for your line through the corner when compared to a earlier turn point with a slower steering rate. Tyler Tyler, You've got it exactly right in your analysis. If you use your same (earlier) turn point and quick turn, you will be tight. If you choose to quick turn you MUST do it later. It's that later turn point that you're now ABLE to use because of the ability to quick turn that gives you the wider arc. That wider arc allows you to either go through with the same speed and less lean or with more speed at the same lean. For all, So to follow up on the original question of trailbraking versus quick turning... I couldn't agree more with Hotfoot. There is a time and a place for trailbraking where the amount of our $10 worth of attention it takes to execute well is worth the benefit (as she addressed). However, I think most riders will find that the quick turn technique costs less attention which allows more focus on the foundation of every good corner which is proper entry speed. If you get that wrong, the whole corner is blown. Now, to further follow up on the benefits of quick turning... when we approach a corner too fast, we fear running wide (or, not being able to get on your line). Conversely, if you're confident you can get on your line you're not worried about your entry speed. So what's the real problem... your speed or your ability to get on your line? If you can effectively quick steer will that help you get on your (wider) line with a higher speed? What happens to your line if you increase your entry speed but steer at the same rate as before? How does this apply to a series of corners (s-curves) that you're trying to go faster through? In other words, what must you do to be able to go faster through a series of corners? Benny

err... shouldnt that be the other way around? I think it is important this question gets cleared up because there is clearly some mis-perception on this subject so here goes... 1) What gives you a wider radius through a corner... an early turn in or a late turn in? 2) If you can steer faster (i.e. quick turn) can you turn in later? 3) So, what effect then does quick steering have on your line choices... more choices or less? Benny

I'm planning to be there when CSS comes next summer as long as I'm back from my deployment in time. It may be my first ride in over a year by then. I'll definitely look for you if you're there.

Franco, I have an R6S that has a throttle that is very tricky as well. It is very easy to be abrupt when transitioning from off-throttle to on-throttle. I used to hate it but I've learned to appreciate it because it requires a very delicate touch. One that you can't have when you're even remotely stiff on the bars. It taught me that when I was being abrupt with the throttle it was because I wasn't relaxing enough. Now, a rough transition form off to on throttle is my first indication that I need to relax so I've learned to embrace that tricky throttle. It's been a great training aid. Try to relax like you were taught in Level 1 and I bet your transitions become smoother. Benny

As for the SR of rolling off the throttle mid-corner... let's work toward that answer by having you (or anyone else) answer this question first: 1) What desirable effects does good throttle have on the bike? It maximizes two important things. What are they? Benny I am going to say optimum weight distribution between the front and rear tires (40 / 60) and ground clearance. That's pretty close to what I was looking for and both are certainly true. I was looking for "good traction" and "good stability". Things I think most riders agree are important to them. The weight distribution you talked about is part of what gives you that good traction... you are using proper throttle control to match your weight distribution to the size of you contact patches. The other traction benefit of good throttle control is keeping your suspension (front AND rear) in mid-stroke which makes it most compliant, keeping your contact patches in better contact with the ground. The stability comes from the suspension not moving up and down so the bike remains on a predictable line. This condition is AS GOOD AS IT GETS, as Keith says. The reason this pertains to our discussion is because, to me, rolling off the throttle to re-steer the bike due to running wide (or even to avoid an obstacle) is not an SR. It is a wise, deliberate action to avoid a bad situation. However, the closer to the traction limit you are, the more risk is involved to do it, and the less aggressive the roll-of should be. To me, it becomes an SR when you do it as an unintended reaction and it gives you undesirable or unexpected consequenses. If you're not near the limit of traction and you roll off the throttle, you will run wider than you intended (braking magnifies this). If that now puts you in a situation where you're headed for danger, it will trigger more SRs. You can see where that goes next. It becomes worse when you're near the limit of traction. You can be there for several reasons like going fast on good pavement or running into gravel, an oil spot, etc. If you NEED all your traction and you roll off, you are hosed. You've just gone from your optimum traction conditions, as discussed above, to less than optimum when you need optimum the most. The results are usually less than desirable. I have personally been saved by overcoming this SR when cornering fairly aggresively while entering a highway on-ramp and suddenly finding a stream of water across the road. Fortunately, my training kicked in and I gripped the tank with my leg so I could really relax on the bars and I kept my throttle roll-on. It took all I had to do it, but I did. Sure enough, when I hit the water with my front it slid, then so did the rear but because I was relaxed, the bike corrected itself and hooked back up. If I had rolled off, the front would have probably pushed way too much to get back underneath me on the back side, and if I had tightened on the bars, the bike would not have been able to automatically correct itself. Once the slide was over, I then found myself running wide so I rolled the throttle off to neutral, re-steered and got back on the throttle, all the while looking where I wanted to go and not the curb that wanted to ruin my day. There was no guarantee I was going to stay up, but had I not overcome those SRs through good training and mental rehearsals, I guarantee you I would have hit the pavement... then the curb. Franco, I'm sorry you didn't have similar results but hopefully you have a better understanding. I also hope this helps other folks. Benny