hubbard_28

That part I wouldn't know. I was getting the bike no faster than 30 mph, and stick it into neutral, so there is surely some deceleration. And sorry Stu. I didn't know this was a previous conversation. It has sparked some interest in a couple riders, so I wouldn't think starting this discussion for the few of us who didn't participate in the earlier post would be harmful.

Having ridden the no BS bke more than once, I can attest that you cannot turn it. "They" (an instructor) told me that another instructor was able to make it turn gradually in a very wide open space but it was useless from a cornering a motorcycle perspective. There are no corners on any track that are that big where you could turn the No BS bike. OK, so just the one. I agree that there is no corner on a track that can be taken at speed. I was able to get my bike to competently corner at approx 15-20 mph around a "bend" I guess you could call it. I had my hands on the tank, close to the bars, and I assure you the bike was able to turn with leaning and peg pressure. I'll try it again later in the week if the parking lot is cleared, and give you my results. I have a camera that I'll mount, if I can get it to work.

They always admit that some people are capable of working the "No BS machine" without the bars, but they are few and far between the people who can do it smoothly and consistently, as I understand. You can't make a sharp turn without handle bar input, and I think your test proves that BP and peg pressure can make track riding smoother when applied. Your thinking, and trial have definitely opened my eyes to this. There are some things we can read over and over, but until we understand it and try it or see it in action, we'll never get it.

I was joking about the standing up. Yesterday when it cooled off (100 degrees) I went out and tested some things. I did some runs at 20 and 30 mph in a huge parking lot to gage the bikes ability to stay straight when I'm off the handlebars. I tested what you did first, but I did it without my hands on the bars. Near them in case anything happened, but touching them would have, more than likely, unconsciously swayed my results. Exact same results. When I put pressure on the right peg, the bike went right, but it was at an uneven pace, and I never got comfortable guiding the bike like this. It just wanted to keep going right. Same with left. I think the lack of body input made it difficult to control. Then I tried it with my butt on the seat, and the same results. A little more controlled. I may have had swayed it by leaning a little, but I tried to minimize it. Next was the leaning off the bike. With even pressure on the pegs, and my butt hanging to the left, the bike went smoothly to the left. With added pressure on the left peg, I could control the steering to the left of the bike. If I wanted to go right with my body to the left, I could, but I had to twist my torso over the tank to the right, and again, added pressure on the right peg aided going to the right. When I put pressure on the right peg with my butt hanging to the left while attempting to go left, I could still make the bike go left, but there wasn't much control. I continued to have to grab on to the bars. When I had my body over to the left or right, and put just a little pressure on the same side peg, I could make the bike smoothly turn to the that side, and with much more stability and confidence. After about 30 minutes of working on this I could direct it in a right hand turn smoothly, and with a good amount of consistency. There is a sweeping left between the warehouses, and just about every time I was making it with no input on the bars (I was in neutral when I was testing this). I continued to have difficulty controlling the bike taking a left with by body leaning left, and putting outside peg pressure. I could do it, but it wasn't silky smooth (little Zohan reference for ya). I'd say it's worth everyone who hasn't played around with it to find a parking lot and try it. I'll do it more, because it is another thing that will increase my comfort on the bike, and I think it will be something I can add to my trackday Sunday to mess around with.

My BP pics. I wish I could blame them on the end of the day, but it was an all day event of bad BP and sloppy riding.

That doesn't really make sense, with the "active" and "passive" designation. I ignore my outside hand, and just lean my outside arm on the tank, as is promoted in cornering classes. All my adjustment are made with my inside hand.

Howdy. Hope to see you posting. I love Triumphs. I rode with an old guy on a Thruxton the other day. Beautiful bike.

Ultimately you're going to end up with 40/60% ratio, or there about. You've got to get on the gas. If you go into the corner as heavily as when you initially start dipping the bike, you're going to lowside. Next trackday pay attention during a big carousel, or something similar. You're on the gas, and this means you've got more weight on the back.

I don't know the accuracy of the test because of your position. Standing up leans you to the right, but you (hopefully) don't stand up when you're cornering on the track.

I mess up all the time. I've pretty much given up on it until I work on some other things. I just let the clutch out a little, and the engine spins, then I downshift again real quick. I know I've got to work on it, and am going to after my next trackday. It always feels smooth on my bike, but I'm going to learn on my wifes. If I don't do it just right, everything goes to pot.

Here's the track. It starts on the straight going into the fast right. The riders not me. http://www.aztracktime.com/files/fbw_lap.wmv

It was bad. I was probably the first day in trackday history that a rider, me, didn't pass a single person, and was passed by everyone. I wasn't warming up my tires right until I started following a person who was pitting next to me and hit the track running without having tire warmer. It's a track that will force you to spend most of your time on the left side of the tire, and the rest of the time on the right. Coming out of the pits I hit an early apex left that I learned the last time I watched people race. I started nailing it pretty quick. Most people who don't know how to take it properly are going to have a hard time because you're coming out of a really fast corner. But I'll end with that one. The early apex kicks you out and into the sharpest left on the track. I don't think I hit it right all day. I started turning earlier than the cone, and think my exiting started to improve. As soon as I hit the straight I take a look back to let the faster riders through. Usually this is where the motards are right behind me, so I let them, and everyone else, through, and hang behind them down the straight. If there is no one behind me, I'll hit in the range of 113-115 in 3rd-4th gear before I hard brake and get down to 2nd. There is a mid-speed corner at the end of the straight that has been *cough* improved upon, and scares the newer riders because of how bumpy it is. There are plenty of RP's though, but my BP usually suffers. Then it's straighten up the bike and crank the throttle until the continuous left finally forces you to start leaning. I do pretty well here, but start to have problems because as soon as 2nd starts really pulling, I have to get ready to lean harder into a left, then straighten the bike up to brake for a right. I don't get passed much in this section, but some people do get through. The hard right is tricky for most, but I was consistently good. There are about 2 feet from the rumble strips to a really bad patch of concrete that takes a lot of riders out. Going into the right broke a couple of collar bones that day. I think I missed taking the corner well once, but I still wasn't confident enough to get to full lean. After the right you can give the throttle just enough juice to set up for the 180 degree increasing radius left, where I can take plenty of time to work on leaning, BP, and just taking the corner properly. I didn't do very well, and spent most of my time readjusting the bike because I wasn't pushing fast enough to kick the bike to the outside of the track to set up for the short straight going into the double left corner ahead. And I noticed something weird and discomforting. I seem to push DOWN on the handlebars while I'm cornering. It was uncomfortable. I could turn the bike properly, but the pushing down wasn't working. The last time I did this track my left hand was numb for a week. This time my triceps were sore, and still are, almost a week later. I'm going to get to a parking lot, and find a way to fix this problem. 17th is a new track, and I need to be able to manage that. Then a double left that is treated as another 180 degree corner. I can't explain why my BP was off, and I couldn't lean completely. I have a killer line through it, and nail it every time, but oh so sloppy. I worked on it all day, but to no avail. And AGAIN with the pushing down on the handlebars. I want to get back on that track after I have time to work on this problem and hopefully correct it. When I saw my BP later, I definitely had very bad BP through most of the day. After the big double corner there is just enough time to come off the throttle, pick the bike up, and let the engine rev down just enough to dip into a very sharp, small right hand corner. It was here that I learned two things. One, when I pick the bike up, I learn just how poorly a stock rear suspension is for a 210 lb man. My ass end chatters, and I get somewhat uncomfortable for a split second. Then as I lean perfectly into the right, I notice how much better I am at right handers than left because I've spent so much time on Firebird East. Easy corner, and after holding the right in a late apex, I can pick the bike up and gun it down a straight that leads into a long, fast right. I get the bike going, and hold the throttle until I get through the corner. I get passed by a lot of bikes here, and am not a fan of this corner, because we always pit just above it, and I see people really getting back on the throttle at the end of the corner, and there are lots of wrecks and near wrecks at the end of this leading into the first corner I explained. My other problem, I noticed, was after the first three sessions. I WASN'T USING RP's. My lines were totally off, and I didn't feel the slightest bit comfortable. I started using my RP's, and although I didn't get much faster, I did feel MUCH more comfortable. After this corner, no braking required, position yourself in the middle of the track, and hit the early apex I explained first. If you swing out you lose rhythm and the left you go into is junk. I watch the better riders do this, and it's where I picked it up. I'll try to post a video of the track for whoever is interested in watching it, not me. And the corner at the end of the straight has been changed. I also have to edit some pics, but I'll show my horrible BP at various points of the track.

Howdy Harry. I'm at about that point. I'm stuck, and am working hard to correct my bad habits (and will post more self observations from my recent trackday) and am dying to attend this school. What made me want it more was watching Peter Lenz and Joe Roberts (?) chew up my local track, and keep pace with the fastest local racers we have while they were only on 125's.

I was 28 years old, and some friends went to a track on an enduro. I rode for about 10-15 minutes. The next day I went to get my license, and the next day I got my first bike. A Suzuki Marauder. Big mistake. A week later I was bent over the tank with my feet on the back pegs wondering why my bike wouldn't go any faster. It was max'ed out at 107 mph. I was pissed. A year later I got a '99 Triumph Legend (LOVED that bike), and 3 short years later I sold it to a woman who wanted a mode of transportation for her son who was getting out of prison. I was a retard, and knew motorcycles weren't the smartest thing for me to have. I still loved and followed motorcycling. I went to the bike show for the '05 bikes, and saw the '05 Kawasaki 636. I took a photo of it, and sent it to my wife, telling her that was my dream bike. A few months later we were driving to the shooting range and, as I always did, stopped by the cycle shop on the way. My bike was sitting on the front podium as soon as the doors swung open. I told her how much I wanted it, and she said "well, get it." I bought the bike and was on my way home before she could draw another breath. I still think I have the best 600 bike made. The day I got my drivers license is a whole other story.

I shoot for balance. I was told by a local track "pro" that most of my weight was supposed to be on my inside foot. I was fighting the bike all day, and wasted a whole day. I've figured that keeping balance helps me adjust to just about anything that I come across quicker.

No. I brakebrakebrake..... brake, clutch, downshift, release the clutch just enough to get the engine spinning while still braking, clutch, downshift, corner. Wow. It sounds hard now that I'm writing it, but it honestly takes no thought at all, and that's what I like about it. If it's OK for the engine. I have a slipper clutch, so I'm obviously not going to have any back end chatter no matter what I do, but I'm thinking about the tranny (related to engines, not a chick with a SHUT YO' MOUTH). Once I get to my brake point, it's just squeeze the brake, and the clutch comes later either before the next downshift or corner.

I practice and believe in using the balls for balance, however I've also observed many GP and SBK riders going flatfooted. What was your observation, Cobie? Thats always been something I've wondered also, but I think it just boils down to them having the bike set up so they can lean 60-65% on them that there is plenty of clearance. They probably drag their knee planted against the bikes before they drag their feet. I'm sure they still have it in some position.

Happened to me on my second trackday. Scared the dickens out of me. I don't remember whether or not it made me go off the track.

Thanks. I was trying it, and thought I was getting real good at it, but on my wife's bike, it's so sloppy. I have never tried it on the track because I'm so bad at it on the street. I'll just hop on her bike and work on it.

The local one is on a Saturday. I work every Saturday. And with CCS, I know I'll get the good training, but going to Willow also includes commute, food, lodging, getting the time off (I've already given my schedule for the entire summer), renting a bike, or renting something to get my bike to the school. Firebird is literally down the road. 8 miles I think. Down the road I could have just told them what I wanted and gotten live feedback about what I'm doing.

I'm trying to get into a $300 class locally for the time being. It's a really small track, and the instructors can run across the infield and stop us as we make mistakes. It's limited though, and I'm sending my forms tomorrow. I think it's in the end of May (HOT!!!). If I can get to CSS I ride the same bike they train on. I make good money, but lately if it's not one thing it's another. I'm starting to get my hopes up for later this year, but I'm sure something else will come up.

I'm doing another trackday Sunday, and what I've been working on recently is braking before a corner and THEN downshifting. I've read that is the proper way to do it. I am horrible at blipping, and haven't worked on it in quite some time. What I do now is downshift and start braking at the same time, and I release the clutch to let the engine do some of the braking work, and then corner. I know it makes me consistent. My times are within a second or two every time. I also know it's wrong. AND I suck at setting a good corner speed. What I've started trying is just braking before cornering, then downshifting later and it is getting more comfortable. I brake hard, release just enough clutch to make the shaft spin, and shift real quick. Is that an alright practice? I do have a slipper clutch, but I don't think it does anything in this instant. My question is; is that making enough spin to shift without hurting the engine, or do I have to blip? It sounds OK, no clanking or bumping, but that still doesn't make it good practice. It may make my consistent laps change for a while, but as some have read before, I have trouble setting my corner speed, and I think working on this aspect of it will help me improve.

It's not countersteering, but making the turn bigger. Like riding or driving on a track.

Definitely. Anything you can learn about balance makes you more comfortable and better at riding, and will give you more control. I think out of the 11 years I've been riding, I've spent a grand total of 3-4 minutes working on wheelies. I was trying it with a friend, Brian, and after a few minutes, we both figured it won't make us any faster, and hit an old back road, but if someone is into it, stunting will make them a better rider altogether.

I commute 100% on a motorcycle, as well as do track, and since my second session of doing track, unless I run off, I don't use the back brake at all. I have a ZX6R, so I don't have the movement in the rear when I'm downshifting, thanks to the fabulous slipper clutch Kawasaki has been so generous to provide me with . I use it RARELY on my wife's EX650 on the street. I could easily get a way with, and get into the habit of, not using it at all. For most riders, you need to be on the ball of your foot when turning. When I'm on a straight I have my left foot under the clutch, but I always have the ball of my right foot on the peg out of habit. Brad may be putting too much weight on his inside leg, thus giving him an insecure feeling when he's cornering. Or he doesn't have any (or much) track experience. The guy you're having this discussion with may not be very advanced, or he's an old street bike rider. I have watched a couple guys coming hot into one of our corners at Firebird, and they bounce their bikes around under braking, but they say they don't feel it when I talk to them. They're just used to it. Times like that it may be good to give it some rear brake. The time and attention it takes to properly use the rear brake, I'd say, is counter productive to other things you could be focusing on. I don't think I know of anyone at the track who uses their rear brake, and just a couple who shift in corners. What have you come up with, or learned about this topic, Barraman?