Crash106

Hello Yigit, Welcome to the forum. It sounds like you are a "real biker." I'm sorry to hear that you crashed and hope you weren't hurt too badly--or at least learned something. I hope you get back on two wheels soon.

Grab your copy of "A Twist of the Wrist II" and turn to chapter five on "Throttle Control." Pay special attention to pages 25 and 26. I would quote the details here, but you really need to have a copy of the book. It's the best $20.00 you can spend to improve your riding.

Not yet, Cobie. I hope to go to VFR in 2011. Crash106

Dear David, If you're a street rider, I think you need one of these to store your helmet and rain suit.

I'm another one who has problems with sticky vision--getting stuck looking at my turn point, or frozen looking at the apex, so I guess it's the Two Step that still gives me the most problems. On the other hand, when I get my eyes up and work on making ONE turn per corner, everything else seems to fall into line. Ahhhhhhh!

Hello Vaibhav, Welcome. Good to hear from you. You might be able to related to this story: My wife and I were out driving one day in her Camaro and she said, "You know, you drive around corners a lot faster in the car than on the bike." Ayup. Sure enough. I have no problem sliding the car around, but I have great (and justified) fear about sliding the bike around, especially with my wife on the back! Still, I used a lot of the things from the Twist books and video to help my car driving (and occasional session on the kart track)--lines, turn points, getting on the gas early and so on--great fun! One thing I learned in a car racing book is that good lap times on four wheels require a certain amount of sliding. There is still a fair amount of traction available after a four wheeler starts slipping that just isn't as controllable with two wheels. I watched an AMA Superbike race last year with the guy in first place backing it into every corner, while the guy right behind him hardly slipped at all. They were riding identical lap times. From what I've seen, sliding a motorcycle doesn't necessarily make you any faster. Anyway, I'd certainly like to hear more about your experience of karts versus bikes.

Hello LakeBum and welcome to the discussion. I had some trouble with my cornering until I started letting the bike lean in and grip before rolling on the throttle. "Twist II" covers the many advantages of being on the throttle while cornering. However, you have to read closely to see where it says something like, "Get on the throttle as soon as possible after leaning into the corner." For me, I'm just not talented enough to predict how much throttle I'll need before I need it, and I'm not sensitive enough to roll the throttle on while I'm falling into the corner. For me, and I think for most other people, everything works much more smoothly if I roll the throttle on after I get the bike leaned in and pointed toward the apex.

I don't know what the plan is for the forth book, but I'd like to see a book that maximizes performance and safety for street riders. For example: racing type throttle control works well for most corners on the street, but racing lines often don't (because sand, rocks, kids, dogs or traffic prevents you from using your whole lane); using only the front brake works fine on the track, but will dump you on your head the first time you try it on a gravel driveway. Somethings apply. Somethings just don't. If Keith doesn't write this book, I just might!

Hello Q, What's happening? Been on any good rides lately? Using any of the information from "Twist of the Wrist"? Know any good cornering secrets?

Yeo Fossil, If it hurts to crash, I suggest you not do that any more. Glutamine is a food supplement that sometimes helps people heal faster--although, it's not much of a pain killer. I know it will take awhile, but I hope you feel better soon.

When I put on my gear and leaned well forward toward the inside mirror of my bike, I saw a big chunk of visor tinting. I have a 3/4" tall film with connected dots that acts as a sun shield. For me, the visor sun shield film thingy helps reduce eye strain and migraines. However, I can see that the more I lean in and down, the more it blocks my vision. If I lean over far enough or look in far enough, I'll also see the actual top of the eye cutout on my Scorpion helmet. I'm a safety manager by day and have often noted how awkward this body-leaned-head-straight position looks. Unnatural. The rational I've always heard was to keep the head and eye level with the horizon to avoid getting dizzy. I've often thought, "But I don't get dizzy when cornering." On a side note, I scared some birds yesterday. In turns, three of them jumped up from the road and took off to my right. I got a good look at all three of the little brown creatures. Every one of them had their head on almost straight and their eyes and chins (beaks) pointed where they were going. There heads were almost straight, even though they were turning so hard their little wings were almost 90-degree from the ground. Interesting topic. I'm expecting a truly revolutionary motorcycle to appear any time soon. I just feel we're all missing something fundamental. Maybe the next great motorcycle revolution will come from a more natural seating position "inside" the bike.

Whole new thought here, Ton: Have you considered practicing the skills from "Twist II" while driving your car? I do this all the time by picking a turn point, setting my speed, looking in, turning the car then "rolling on" the throttle in my cage. I actually started opening the driver's door so I could drag a knee in the tight stuff (not really). I started driving my car like a bike when I realized I was having a hard time NOT trail braking my bike because I have ALWAYS trail braked in my cars. (I hope that sentence is convoluted enough for ya.) Trail braking still works fine on the bike, just not at the limit, and I figure if I can't do one or the other On Demand, then I don't really have Emotional Control of the throttle. Anyway, just a thought.

I was just watching "Faster" and wondered much the same thing. I saw so many high sides that I wondered what was causing them all. Do you think it was the sudden throttle changes, "bad" tires, tire/engine mismatch, SRs, pushing the limits or what? We see fewer high sides now with the four strokes, but plenty of tucking the front end. I look forward to reading your responses to Eirik's great question.

One approach used by car racers is to get on the racing line first. You know you've got a "good line" when you can tip in once and roll on the throttle without having to change your line or roll off the throttle till you exit the turn. That's going to feel totally different from what you are used to doing. I find it relaxing. PS Is a trip to CSS in Great Britain really out of the question? It doesn't look that far on a map.

For those asking about bike fit on the touring rigs, I'm 5'10" 205 pounds. My wife really does look like a retired super model at 5'9". You couldn't get me to tell you her weight for a new S1000RR! If it was just me, I'd also be very tempted by the Concours as well--I love the fully adjustable windshield, the power and all the other nice features and electronic aids. They are a great value!

Hello Eirik, You asked about my impressions of the big touring bikes. I haven't ridden them all, but here is my snapshot of the one's I have ridden. BMW R1200RS. Pros: Feels very small and light with great handling and good control over bumps. Cons: Seat nothing special. Big twin doesn't provide good feedback off idle, but motor fairly strong. My wife wasn't real impressed with seat or trunk. Seating position is too sporty/forward for me (others will disagree). I would probably like the R1200GS with the tall dirt bike bars, but my wife wouldn't be caught dead on a giant dirt bike. BMW K1200LT. Pros: Feels big and likes to lean. Comfortable seat front and back. Good accessories. Great deal right now because the K1600LT is coming out. Cons: Top heavy and feels a bit underpowered. No floorboards in back. Honda GoldWing 1800. Pros. Feels "just right," the way a touring bike should feel. Granted, it was heavy but also easy to ride in parking lots. The weight disappeared as soon as you got going (unlike the LT). No problems leaning over. Handles well and quickly. Great big, comfortable seats front and back. Lots of luggage space. Motor feels plenty strong but not scary fast. Cons: Everybody else owns one. Bit dull. H-D Electra Glide. Pros. Good size. Good front seat and okay back seat and back rest. Again, the big twin engine feels vague letting the clutch out (maybe it's just me). Handles fine at slow speeds and in the parking lot. Handles okay at speed, but I didn't push it very hard. Cons. More expensive than any of the others for no more features. Vibrates like crazy. Noisy. H-D has been building bikes for 100 years, so why can't I find neutral? Would never buy an Electra Glide when I could get a Goldwing or FJR for the same money or less. Yamaha FJR1300AE. Pros. I LOOOOVE the automatic shifting! Pick a gear and control the throttle. No clutch and no fuss. Tons of power but very controllable. I spun up the rear tire a bit turning left at a stop light and just kept the throttle steady and counter steered into the turn with no worries. Handles great. Effortless cornering. Very good riding position. I felt very confident and connected to this bike. Cons: Trunk is an extra cost option. My wife wasn't sure the back seat would be comfortable on a long trip. My wife didn't go on my test ride--big mistake! Kawasaki Concours 14. Back seat really cramped with my supermodel wife smooshed up against me. We both said no. Buell XB1200XT. Rear foot pegs so close to the saddle bags my wife literally couldn't even get on the bike. Dealer was shocked. That bike (heck, Buell's in general) could easily have been so much more! No dice. My Picks? I would be very happy with the FJR1200AE. I loved the power, the automatic shifting and the riding position. If it was just me, I would at least test ride the big BMW dirt bike, but we're looking for a two-fer touring bike so that's out. I felt very comfortable on the Wing. It has a delightful effortless quality that instills lots of rider confidence (the theme of this thread). It is NOT slow or clumsy to steer and holds the road very well. The GW seat really is the best and that's important to me. The misses wants the Goldwing--without a doubt. If WE are going to spend $25 grand on a bike, we BOTH need to be happy. I hope that helps.

Hello Eirik, Funny you should mention confidence and being on the right motorcycle. My wife and I have been testing big touring bikes. I always thought the BMW R1200RT would be my ideal. Testing it. Hated it. Because my muscles don't work well, I had ZERO confidence I could ride the bike for a hour without my arms literally failing and leaving my paralyzed on the side of the road. This well founded fear was so strong that I didn't enjoy the test ride AT All. We went out on the giant K1200LT--huge, dinosaur of a bike, but I could lean it, stop it and have much more fun on it because I had confidence it wasn't going to embarrass me and leave me stuck on the side of the road. I've known riders who were scared to death on a big touring bike. They felt uncomfortable with the weight and didn't think they could get the bike turned. I've always loved 'em. I hate jittery, uncomfortable little bikes (like my old GN400 Suzuki). They scare me. I'm afraid I'll sneeze and ride into a tree! Beyond the bike, and maybe you've felt this too, I find that the more relaxed I am, the more feedback I get from the tires and the more confident I feel. Maybe that's what you felt on your 400 Kawi. Anyone else notice this feedback/confidence loop?

Great Job Austin DeHaven! My son is 16 and excited about getting his car license so he can take the local MSF motorcycle class. You're an inspiration.

I think Acebobby and Jason are onto a couple of good ideas. While strength training is specific (so motorcycle riding is the best conditioning for motorcycle riding), riding a bicycle is probably the next closest thing. It also gives your heart a good workout and a strong heart is supposed to make racing less stressful. On the other hand, when do you HAVE to tense your legs? I ride a maxi-scooter at the posted speed limit and only tense up my legs for heavy braking. While I CAN lock into the seat (by pushing my bottom back against the seat pad), I CAN'T lock into the tank because their simply is no tank. I get around the corners fine by relaxing my legs and arms as soon as I get off the brakes. It seems like the more I relax, the better my vision, steering and throttle control become. The centrifugal force keeps me planted in my seat.

Didn't Formula 1 car racing just have a big bruhaha about team mates backing off and letting other team mates win (taking one for the team)? The officials said that was some kind of cheating. So, now, these MotoGP team mates are actually racing and that's a problem? Jeez!

Sears Point is not too far from the Pacific North West. Throw some bags on that Raider and scoot on down.

Thanks for all the great feedback everyone. I took all your suggestions and went for a couple of nice long rides. From what I can tell on my own, I seem to have TWO problems. 1) First Problem. Doing the One Step: Finding a turn point, then looking at the turn point too long and entering the corner slower than I intended. My mind thinks I need more lean angle than I really do because I THOUGHT I was going to enter the turn a bit faster. I feel like I'm falling in because I am adding more lean angle than the speed of the turn requires. I need a sudden burst of throttle just to keep from falling over. Duh! Solution? Two Step. 2) Second Problem. I was trying to arrest the lean angle with the throttle instead of the handlebars. Solution? I found that if I use my vision correctly (Two Step) and enter the turn at the proper speed (not too slowly), then I am completely comfortable leaning the bike in off the throttle and off the brakes. When I set my final lean angle with the handlebars (not the throttle), I found I could easily add throttle and apply TCR#1 through the remainder of the turn. Problems? In too slow and throttle on too soon! Solutions: Two Step and TCR#1. Thanks so much for all your help. I tried this with my Burgman and a demo Goldwing and it worked great on both bikes. You are the best!

I just LOVE the BMW R1200R. To my eye, and to my arms, naked standards are just the best looking, most comfortable bikes out there. I like touring bikes, but LOVE standards. Yours, by the way, looks great in black. So, if you're like me and love to ride, CSS is a great place to learn more about riding. I have the books and video and those help a lot. So does the feedback from the forum. On the other hand, I am very much looking forward to riding with CSS in 2011 at VIR. A good coach can watch you ride one lap and find areas for improvement you didn't even know you had! I think you would really enjoy a day (or three) with the good people at CSS.

Dear Superbike Riders, I have something weird that happens on corner entrances--this is on the street, riding my 650cc Burgman with an automatic clutch, but I have felt the same things on my 1200. This is tough to describe, but I'll do my best. Here goes. I feel confident on the bike when I enter a turn dragging a little front brake--trail braking. I feel good on the bike when I've set my speed BEFORE my turn point, and I enter the turn with maintenance throttle already on (NOT accelerating--just holding the throttle steady). I feel scared and tippy when I enter a corner off the throttle and off the brakes. The bike feels more like it is falling over than tipping in under my control. I'm also afraid of the JOLT I'll get when I try to get back on the throttle. This jolt is really just a little jerk, and I'm trying hard to be smooth, but that drive-line-lash/off-on-throttle thing is very uncomfortable. It doesn't help that I try to get back on the throttle to arrest my lean, so the jolt happens just as I'm at my lowest lean angle. Strangely enough, I seem to have better throttle control when I'm easing off the brake and onto the gas. (I wonder if the turning forces mask the feelings of acceleration.) Sometimes I think this happens when I'm just turning in too darned slowly, or when my eyes are too close to the front tire (also causing the entrance speed to be very slow), but even when I try to get it right, entering the turn off the throttle and the brakes feels uncomfortable. Am I doing it wrong? Do I HAVE to be off brakes and throttle to make a good entrance (certainly not necessary at the posted speed limit)? Does anyone else get this scary "falling in" feeling?

Dear Greg, After watching you fly around that the Barber track, peaking at 130+mph and entering some turns at 90 mph, I'm starting to understand why I'm such a fan of WATCHING motorcycle racing. Oooo, boy! That's all too fast for me, but it looks like great fun for you. How can you even see your entrance points? I'm watching the readout on the GPS and I'm still lost about which way to turn at the end of the straights. Some of those corners seem to be double apex turns. That looks tricky to keep track of, and, jeez Greg, do you have to replace your elbow pads every few laps? Seriously, I enjoyed the video. Great work. So nice to see it with such clarity and the GPS readout makes it much more lively and amazing. Thank you.